That Corbyn fella...

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/weve-always-cared-about-racism-say-people-who-happen-to-hate-corbyn-20180327146468

More centrist daddery
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/01/if-corbyn-is-not-to-appear-a-passenger-he-must-learn-to-lead

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43609296

So a lot of criticism of The Times is based on racist and anti-Semitic posts on Facebook forums that are not linked to or controlled by the Labour party.

I find that a bit tenuous. I mean, that sort of posting happens on other party forums as well if you want to do some data mining...

next week, lets have a poke around some horrible shitty right wing facebook groups / twitter accounts and add up how many we think vote tory. on second thoughts, best not upset the apple cart too much, a man like corbyn gets anywhere useful and some of us might end up having to pay a bit more tax, and we can't have that!

no gives a fuck about you and your facts, there's column inches to fill - pile on boys and girls, ker fucking ching!

I was talking to a bloke who's fairly high up in the labour party and he wasn't surprised by all this. It seems they've been receiving a lot of complaints of anti-Semitism that haven't always been acted on. From the volume of complaints it seemed that this was a matter of when it would hit the press, not if.

Good article. Especially this:

"An open letter defending Corbyn on Facebook suggested that the Labour leader must feel “battered, bruised and damn near hopeless and helpless”. Those adjectives could also be applied to Berger, who has seen three men jailed for racist threats against her. “Hitler was right,” read one comment, alongside a picture of the MP with a Star of David on her forehead. “You better watch your back Jewish scum,” read another. The third called her an “evil money-grabber” and Photoshopped her face on to a rat.

If you don’t know about this back story, but do know about the “relentless attacks” on Corbyn so often referred to by his supporters, ask yourself why. The brutal and hysterical campaign against him in the rightwing press has, in the words of one critic, turned him into “the eternal victim”. It has become an excuse to dismiss all criticism of Corbyn as illegitimate."

The argument that goes "the tories are worse, so stop digging at Corbyn" is weak.

The argument that goes "the tories are worse, so stop digging at Corbyn" is weak.

a point made entirely by... you, by all accounts.

i think the point you seem to be missing is that any discussion about racism or anti-semitism that discounts the obvious racist and anti-semitic (and worse) attitudes of other organisations isn't really a discussion of much substance, because doing so suggests the finger pointers have more invested in seeing the arse of corbyn than they do in showing racism and anti-semitism the door.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Except in this case, person A accuses person B of X.

Person B does something about X.

Person A carries on being a racist sack of shit.

Whataboutthosecuntsthen.

I’m not sure it’s a great idea to treat X as if it’s a contagion.

Some mental midget painted a shit mural, some idiot shared some looney fake news about Jews. These people deserve to be shunned.

All else seems to be heat and noise.

Whataboutthosecuntsthen

It’s own wiki when?

a point made entirely by... you, by all accounts.

lets have a poke around some horrible shitty right wing facebook groups / twitter accounts and add up how many we think vote tory.

Maybe I misconstrued what you said, (if so I apologise) and you don't think tory racism should be used as a distraction from issues around Corbyn.

All else seems to be heat and noise.

Is it?

As an outsider I'm struck by potential weaknesses around the last two main stories.

What makes me pause for concern is when you hear people like Luciana Berger interviewed and listen to the egs they give. Honestly it sounds like there are a lot of pretty aggressive cunts at some party meetings and some of those clearly have hangups abouts Jews.

So, there’s been this massive ongoing problem with antisemitism in the Labour Party for years and years, but only when they start fielding a populist left-wing opposition do we start hearing about it?

Sure, ok. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but for a problem that was seemingly so wide-spread that even Corbae was in on it with his FB likes, it’s been remarkably quiet up until now. Unlike the Tory party’s continual dog-whistle racism which has been visible from space but met with a sort of weak ‘ehhh?’ and a shrug from the press. So you can see why people might be a little suspicious.

There are undoubtedly lots of tools who have risen up quickly through the Labour Party. But to generalise about their views is going to be inaccurate at best.

dog-whistle

A phrase to lazily throw at anyone with whom you disagree, without qualification.

These concepts are eating Labour now. Congratulations.

Eh?

Edit: ok you’ve edited, never mind!

A phrase to lazily throw at anyone with whom you disagree

odd thing to say.

perhaps you could tell us which forms of racism you struggle to disagree with?

Trying to articulate why the ‘dog whistle’ idea is so dangerous, badly, on a phone.

yeah i'm not convinced you've entirely succeeded.

Fair enough, I would argue dog-whistle is putting it mildly tbh
See https://www.lfgss.com/comments/14162233/
And neighbouring posts

So. This interminable argument seems to boil down to:

Tories = cunts.
Labour = could do better.

“I think Labour could and should do better (and will probably continue to vote Labour despite some misgivings about some things I’m uncomfortable with)”
“You’re a crypto-Tory cunt trying to undermine a popular left-wing populist movement”

I’m sure someone will be along shortly to say I’m a crypto-Tory cunt.

There are many discussions that are shut down because they can be misinterpreted as a ‘dog whistle’. This is how grooming gangs have managed to continue, how some unofficial schools have avoided inspections etc.

yeah i'm not convinced you've entirely succeeded

You can’t base the validity of an argument on the character of those who prescribe to it. I’ll leave that for you to chew on, you can read around it or something.

There are many discussions that are shut down because they can be misinterpreted as a ‘dog whistle’.

It's PC gone mad, I tell you.

This how grooming gangs have managed to continue, how some unofficial schools have avoided inspections etc.

And nothing to do with woefully underfunded public services and arbitrary performance targets.