In the news

people buying massive cars

See also consumers buying traditional brands like Barbour, Redwing and Fjallraven. Or steel framed bikes.

Emma Gonzalez speech - amazing https://twitter.com/i/web/status/964942779767033857

Irish doing a sterling job of getting ads relevant to the news story.

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absolutely no conflict of interests here ... at all , none , not a one

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/19/westminster-councillor-received-gifts-and-hospitality-514-times-in-three-years

wonder if he got a free lunch from the people who refurbed grenfell on the cheap

Iceland wants to ban circumcision.

Everyone has the right to believe in what they want, but the rights of children come above the right to believe.

Jews and Muslims don't like the idea.
Not sure what I think about this.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43111800

Well, you are either pro genital mutilation of infants or anti, which one feels more comfortable?

Is it as black and white? Female circumcision is different obviously

Circumcision as an adult, fine, it's your junk.

But people deciding for kids, nope. What's the big deal with doing it when someone is an adult?

Some Christian churches baptize adults only because then it's a conscious choice. (And a bit of water doesn't even leave marks...

Innocent enquiry @skydancer, do you come from a personal or familial culture that practices circumcisions?

To me, from a family with a medically circumcised male relative, but no religious culture of the practice, it is a no brainer that the right to not be cut up as a child outranks the right of the parent to choose to cut up their child based on a religious belief.

It’s ok. He’s declared them all. So they are completely and utterly not bribes in the slightest.

The frustrating thing is his declaring all of them makes it easier for everyone to see what a cunt he is, but almost impossible to sack the bastard.

I hope it has given him an ulcer.

Innocent enquiry @skydancer, do you come from a personal or familial culture that practices circumcisions?

Yes. I was circumcised at birth and I circumcised my son. To no ill effect. I am now an atheist. My son isn't and would really be unhappy if he hadn't been done when he was a week old.
I understand why this may be considered barbaric

Imagine you’d done it because it was fashionable at the time. Review how that stands up to scrutiny.

Yes that would be more problematic.

There are parallels with this and the kosher/hallal way of killing animals, considered by some as inhumane

I was circumcised for medical reasons at aged 5. Obviously different.

Whether I needed it do be done or not (I did) I don't consider myself to be mutilated and have no regrets that it happened.

However, I cannot begin to justify in my mind that a baby should be circumcised for religious reasons. I wouldn't tattoo or pierce a baby's ears...so I wouldn't consider, even for a moment, surgically altering its penis!

I think it's one of them things where a ban would only put what is a minority group at further risk. I'm not a fan of the idea and would prefer religions didn't meddle but where they are this is one of the instances where people will seek illegal means and it's better having them do it in a safe way with good support and facilities open to them.

Pics or it never happened ...

Another way of thinking about it, that seems to clarify it for me, is to imagine a new belief system with a new attendant surgical manifestation.

If all of the people who self identified as Jedi on the millennium census started claiming the right to cut off the earlobes of their children, how would the media, public and government respond?

I think it's one of them things where a ban would only put what is a minority group at further risk. I'm not a fan of the idea and would prefer religions didn't meddle but where they are this is one of the instances where people will seek illegal means and it's better having them do it in a safe way with good support and facilities open to them.

You would extend this (logically) to Female Genital Mutilation as well?

Tut, do an online survey, get distracted, forget what we were talking about, drag it all back up again in two-three years time when we need an outrage to distract from another story.

removal of the right to any and all religious belief...

Restriction of belief is turning a bit into the thought police. But removal of it as an allowable defence to activities that should otherwise be unacceptable? Yes, definitely.

Pics or it never happened ...

This would be that hurtcore grooming we're hearing so much about right now?

How so?

It's the entirely unnecessary abuse and mutilation of children for no good reason, other than adherence to a credulous belief system.

Not really, from my understanding that can't be made safe due to how evasive and intrusive it is.

one of the instances where people will seek illegal means

It already happens in back rooms at the hands of people with no medical training.

Not really, from my understanding that can't be made safe due to how evasive and intrusive it is.

Surely that'd be a reason to get skilled surgeons to mutilate pre-pubescent girls, rather than someones relative in a bedroom?