Gravel / Gravé / Gnarmac / Groad / ATB

tru facts

Hips dont lie

FWIW I have a Verenti and if you are into relaxed geometry and value for money I would recommend it. Steel with carbon fork, thru axle with tubeless ready WTB 23mm internal width rims and full hydro Apex 1. The range on the 11-42 is wonderful, and any concerns about 'jumps' in teeth, spinning up things or spinning out down hill are irrelevant for 95% of riding (eg wanting to do SDW in a day, keeping up on 70 mile group rides at 20mph+ yes, you might struggle) otherwise you're golden on Apex.

Apex 1 is out of question, they only have small and very large sizes left. I need 56 cm and that is only available in 105 version. Just got a possibility to get an ex-demo one for more than 200 cheaper than Apex1 Pieckenflick, probably will take it and invest money into second wheelset (easy switching road and CX wheels was my dream ever since I started riding CX/gravel back in 2015).

WHAT LUNACY IS DIS?

eh?

easy switching road and CX wheels was my dream ever since I started riding CX/gravel

This too is my dream....

Ah if it's not your size then probably good to get something with a clutched rear mech with the gravel and CXing you're doing

I mean 105 will be my size, so far rode CX/gravel on Sora and then 105, so I believe I will be fine.
From what I heard thru axles are a big benefit for easy wheel switch and it's not too easy to find a nice gravel with both TAs in this budget (considering I don't want alloy frame).

I think the biggest benefit of TAs with disc brakes is mitigating all the fucking rubbing and mis-alignment with QRs. You (hopefully) won't be taking the wheels off and and all the time, but you will be putting a lot of flex and punishment on the wheels, so the strength of the TAs will hopefully keep them quiet when you're bouncing around off road.

Exactly, what I am most worried in multi-wheelset approach is the likely need to adjust the brakes every time I swap wheels, so TA should make it effortless.

with disc brakes is mitigating all the fucking rubbing and mis-alignment with QRs

Buy shimano skewers

Why will thru axle mean you don’t have to adjust your brakes? Unless you use the same hubs on both wheel sets, your rotors are going to be in slightly different positions

https://www.bike-components.de/en/Syntace/Disc-Shims-p7096/

I have a track bike and a thru axle disc brake bike. I have some spare ultegra skewers going tho?

Cool. I’m still not sure what that has to do with TA. If your QR wheel isn’t in straight, you straighten it, not adjust your brakes. I’ve no idea how anyone struggles to put a quick release wheel in straight in the first place.

+1. Not a problem I've ever had. Thru axles make a lot more sense for suspension frames/forks, but seem overkill for rigid f+f.

Anyway, back to the topic as the thru axles are not my main concern. More of a concern was that by buying cheaper bike (and Verenti will end up 200 GBP cheaper for me, if not even more because of international postage) I will be able to buy a second wheelset. Also I have bought a carbon 27,2 mm seatpost, which I can fit to Substance (unlike Pickenflick that uses 31,6). I believe these differences will make up for not having 1x drivetrain, unless you convince me that titanium is so much better than steel ;)

The Grade is a great ride. Do you need 40c?

I am not happy with clearances, as on my Alloy Grade they seem really tight - I run Racing Ralphs 33c and in the rear the clearance is asymmetrical and on one side it's just 1-2 mm. I tried to make a compliant using lifetime warranty, the bike is still not back from it, but from the communication through the reseller it seems that they are doing everything not to accept that it might be faulty.
If sticking to Grade, I could possible buy a carbon one: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/gt-grade-carbon-tiagra-2017-adventure-road-bike/ and maybe just swap Tiagra with 105 from my alloy one.

If you want a carbon one try here https://www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/road-bikes/gt-grade-carbon-105-2017-adventure-road-bike-black_378757?

Clearances will be the same though - was getting a teeny bit of chainstay rub from 35c Gravel King SKs on mine - looking to fit something a bit smaller/ less treaded.

I shim the seatpost on my pickenflick and use a 27.2 carbon post - £5

best bike I've owned, yet to build my moots but doubt it will be any better

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I have gone with QRs front and rear on my rando bike (that does some light gravel as well) and do not regret it at all. It just works. In case of sp dyno hubs a TA hub is heavier and twice as expensive compared to a QR equivalent, and forks are more expensive as well. It doesn't make sense as far as I'm concerned.

I do use fancy DT Swiss QRs that you screw to tighten, so the wheels are solidly attached to the frame and fork.

Take my wheels out all the time. Never had any of this with my QRs/steel frame..

Alright, let's don't talk anymore about QR/TA thing. My main points of concern are:
1) Verenti will be about 250 GBP cheaper for me
2) Pickenflick is titanium, Verenti steel
3) Pickenflick has Apex1 with mechanical discs, Verenti has 2x11 105 with hydraulic discs

As Pickenflick is borderline on my budget and I already expect to pay more for wheels to get rid of those 2,4 kg Gipiemme, I am worried that I will end up spending much more than I intended. Maybe it can be worth it in the long run though... Questions, questions...

How long do you intend keeping the bike for?

If I don't find any features that particularly disturb me (like the tyre clearance problem in my Grade), I would prefer to have it for a longer period of time, maybe just upgrading some parts like wheels in the meantime. Especially that Titanium (but also steel to smaller extent) are "advertised" as such a long-lasting materials.