The wave of new London bike shops

Marginal gains

Simple maths - the bigger the dia. then the bigger weight savings for a given wall thickness (which is why it's worthwhile on the front triangle). Chainstay weight saving is nominal, seatstay is miniscule. If you really want to geek out I can send you a spreadsheet that'll show the weight savings you get for all that hard earned £

I'd be interested in this spreadsheet if you'll send a copy?
Does it cover specific tubesets?
Japanese tubesets?

A friend of mine paid too much money for a brand new cdf recently. Haven't ridden it but it's ludicrously heavy.

That's cool, I did come across as a bit of an arse. Post-pub posting, not a good idea.

Actually I didn't know that about 520, thanks. 4130 is not necessarily bad tubing, Harris motorbike frames were build using it, but the grade varies wildly. It's a shame Reynolds have used it tho - 531 is/was manganese molybdenum, as was 753. Not sure about the rest offhand. Incidentally, a framebuilder told me many years ago that 531 was named after the ratios of the alloying elements in the steel, presumably manganese, molybdenum and carbon. 753 was compositionally identical to 531 but thinner and with a different heat treatment, which was why it was much harder to braze, overheat it by 20c and it would become brittle and crack.

Overbuilding is also a result of mass production and product liability. The decline in quality tubing (mostly 531 and 753) came about with the decline in custom framebuilding. Mass and automated production led to less skilled brazing or TiG, and so to avoid failures due to overheating they just beefed up the tubing. Safety first, innit?

Reynolds used to produce a basic tubeset which consisted of 531 main tubes and presumably plain gauge (501?) stays - the green and black sticker read "made with 531 main tubes".

There was a guy in one Brit MTB magazine who claimed he could tell the difference between two bikes, one with a full 531 tubeset and the other with main tubes only. I wrote back and said if you can tell the difference in the Young's modulus between the two on a mountainbike, with a 2" tyre, uphill, in mud, then please come and work for me because you're far more sensitive than any of the test equipment I had at the time. I got a rather snotty reply back, heh.

Oh, and double butting on tubes (and single butting on fork blades) is done mostly to save weight rather than for ride quality. The thinner centre section is as thin as the tube needs to be for strength, and the ends are thicker because that's where they are brazed. Think of it as the centre thickness is how the tube should be; if tubes were glued, for example, they wouldn't need to be butted so they could be as thin as the centre section throughout their whole length. I don't think I've explained that very well, mind.

Ha! Reminds me of this... http://www.bgcycles.com/new-page-1/

It's more a calculator based on all carbon steel weighing approx the same - enter your tubing overall length, butt lengths, wall thicknesses and it spits out a number at the end.

I have heard this a few times. So may ask that comparing cheapish 4130 frame to 953. What would be What weight difference or stiffness? (Given the same diameter tubings all round) Would anyone even notice?
The weight of your wallet will be much lighter after 953 that I do know.

London Bike Kitchen getting booted out to make way for luxury flats:

http://www.lbk.org.uk/blog/2017/11/30/bad-news-were-getting-kicked-out

Sad news, but it was clear this was going to happen. I hope they find somewhere not too far out. It'll be hard to secure a spot on a commuter route, though.

Terrific analysis.

Right by the canal, there's loads of decelopments gone up there all the way through Bow to the olympic park. They advertise them with the couple having a glass of wine on the balcony and laughing at something.

Brixton Cycles managed to survive, so there's some precedent and hope.

Brixton cycles has a cult following of some sorts, and has the service and venue to match.
A similar co op set up today wouldn't last 12 months anywhere in London sadly.
Mosquito bikes had a similar co op background and it's sadly gone.

SBC is still there ..

Good on them (are they a workers co op too?).. i just think with out some serious mega buck investemnt it's a real struggle.
But that said newer shops such a isambards have still been able carve a niche for themselves.
So the story isn't all grim.

are they a workers co op too?

Yes

carve a niche

This is their forte

SBC is a co-op? Interesting.

It's not an LBS as such unless
you live in the suburbs somewhere (I once spotted them from a train going south out of London), but has anyone used Practical Cycles for parts and stuff? I found them claiming to offer every single variation of Gilles Berthoud mudguard possible (three wheel sizes, three widths, two front guard lengths), and I started to wonder just how the F. does anyone keep that sort of stock?

Heh, that's good. Must print it out, ta!

It's hard to put into words, but a quality steel frame isn't just lighter, it has a definite feel to it, in that it it's almost springy, it whips about a little, it's compliant. It just has a better ride quality.

I'll be putting it up on here so sale soon as I don't ride it any more for several reasons. but one of my favourite bikes is a early battered 80's 531 road frame that's been set up as a fixie for years. Cinelli drops and stem, dead simple, but it rides beautifully. It's "only" 531c, but it's just so nice.

So yeah, you'd notice the difference, you really would, although how much is up to you.

It's hard to put into words, but a quality steel frame isn't just lighter, it has a definite feel to it, in that it it's almost springy, it whips about a little, it's compliant. It just has a better ride quality

These are all just ways of saying 'flexible'.

But my question is given the same geometry and tube set diameters.
What would be difference is weight and ride quality between a low quality 4130 and top end reynolds 953 frame.
The cost difference is astronomical, is this justified?
I have heard that the older 531 are very comfortable at soaking road viberation, will the newer steels be stiffer. I had a 853 that was sadly stolen I thought it was plenty light enough and lighter then many aluminium frames.

There's

Yeah, but in a good way