EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

There are plenty of websites
https://www.measuringworth.com/ppoweruk/
https://www.moneysorter.co.uk/calculator_inflation.html

Looking at RPI tends to be the standard way

The EU ain't great and lexit is possible, hmmm I have heard it before, but yeah fair enough a skim read is just that :)

I don't see how a bilateral negotiation will fix this. Every EU country can set its own rules...that's why The Netherlands is such a PITA.

If the EU wants to override that, they will have a fight on their hands with NL, Austria and a few others...for a problem that the UK caused. I don't see how that's going to be resolved. The screaming of the EU overriding local democracies will be a thousandfold.

It will also not fix the issue for UK nationals in the EU...Dutch will NOT allow dual citizenship for them either. They will lose their UK one. Germany will not allow dual if the UK leaves the EU. It goes on.

The EU has already offered everything to stay the same, the UK won't have it because of the EJC. Perhaps another court can work, but the author is not suggesting that either. They seem to be very misinformed on this, which doesn't bode well for me, but OK...maybe the rest is ok.

I don't see how a bilateral negotiation will fix this. Every EU country can set its own rules...that's why The Netherlands is such a PITA.

It is because every country can set its own rules that bilateral negotiations are necessary (if a change is possible/desired) re: dual citizenship. This is actually one area of the Brexit negotiations which the EU would potentially not be a discussant.

If the EU wants to override that...

Override what? The right for individual members to dictate citizenship rights? I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

It will also not fix the issue for UK nationals in the EU

Yup, this is absent from the discussion. And as a UK national living in the EU, something I'm concerned about.

The EU has already offered everything to stay the same, the UK won't have it because of the EJC. Perhaps another court can work, but the author is not suggesting that either. They seem to be very misinformed on this, which doesn't bode well for me, but OK...maybe the rest is ok.

It's not clear what you're claiming they are misinformed about. I thought, overall, it was a remarkably well informed piece and the type of thing which I wish had been circulated and discussed before the referendum. I think the underlying philosophical position is worth considering, but the solution (Brexit) problematic.

Ah, bilateral is in being able to negotiate with every EU country.

Hm, I am still not sure that will fix it. The small minded nationalists are causing problems atm in many EU countries. The Dutch libdems were able to propose a new law only because Rutte (the VVD, dutch tories) could not form a government without them. The EU has tried federalism of the "we can all vote where we live" before, the same mindset stopped it.

My snag is that they push the work on individual Eu countries where the EU has already proposed a perfectly fine solution, which helps you and helps me, but the UK isn't having it. But there's no suggestion they are even aware of this one, so they come up with free citizenship, but if they had read a few blogs from the3million or brits in the UK, they would have know right away that alternatives exist, which they didn't discuss.

And the "oh there's no guarantee of violence in NI with a border" ehm, right. Cough.

Anyways I hope whatever happened you get treated decently :)

Exactly this

My snag is that they push the work on individual Eu countries where the EU has already proposed a perfectly fine solution, which helps you and helps me, but the UK isn't having it. But there's no suggestion they are even aware of this one, so they come up with free citizenship, but if they had read a few blogs from the3million or brits in the UK, they would have know right away that alternatives exist, which they didn't discuss.

Okay, I think I get you now. I guess their response would be, as supporters of a "hard" Brexit, EU institutions cannot have a role in domestic politics in post-Brexit Britain. So EU proposals on this point are not worth considering (as they stand). I'm not sure, but I suspect the EU also knows this will be the case with a hard Brexit, and demands for the ECJ governing the rights of EU citizens in the UK in the future will fade with time if the UK ends up moving in the "hard" rather than "soft" direction. If that is the case, I hope EU citizens are treated fairly.

How can you easily work out inflation in that context?

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/Pages/resources/inflationtools/calculator/default.aspx

This uses CPI

Worth noting in the context of home buying, CPI / RPI don't include house prices, and since 1970, house are up to 50 times more expensive, compared to a real wage increase (accounting for inflation) of 2 - 3 times.

Currently we are still landed with settled status, lose all the family reunification rights, and other EU goodies and have no right of appeal if rejected. Not too big a problem in my situation but it pisses me off something awful.

I imagine the EU people in the UK are going to be the big losers, as it's the UK that's barely compromising. It may be easier for EU countries to absorb you all into their current law, but I do hope they show more fairness than their version of "settled status"

An example of the benefits of international cooperation/coordination

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/white-nationalist-richard-spencer-banned-26-countries-eu-1648577

(Obviously we're not in the Schengen Area but the point is still valid)

I thought Dutch we’re now allowing dual Brit/Dutch nationality post brexit?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/10/dutch-nationals-living-britain-allowed-dual-citizenship-brexit

Maybe, maybe not, the law has yet to be passed.

And Austrians are still in the same boat, Germany doesn't allow dual with countries outside the EU (which the UK will soon be) and then there's the point of principle: Forcing people into a citizenship is rather bizarre, and taking away existing rights of people that could not vote on a decision is also rather amoral, I think.

I can probably work something out, even if this won't happen I have a lot of paperwork and have always worked, I could even change job to get a wage increase (and more working hours, so yay) to get to more money if needed.

It's the whole lack of any attempt to compromise compared to EU rights and the indirect approval of xenophobia by the UK government that is just not great. It's not personal, but that's what the bad guys in movies say too :/

Germany doesn't allow dual with countries outside the EU

That is not 100% true, there are many exemptions e.g. a lot of turkish/german duals.
People from countrys that don't release from citizenship (e.g. Iran) can generally get dual.
Maybe there will be an exemption for UK people too, that is not clear at the moment.

OK, yes for completeness that is true, and The Netherlands also allows it for Turkey, because in Turkey you cannot renounce your nationality, the laws don't allow it AND you get automatic Turkish citizenship at birth.

ATM any UK citizens can hold dual, but I sure hope like the Dutch government they can make an exception for after Brexit days, because then that law isn't valid anymore (from what people were told when asked)

German embassy in London has clarified on its website that any German citizen obtaining a UK citizenship before Brexit can keep the German citizenship after Brexit without having to apply for an exemption. Germany allows dual citizenship if it is with another EU country, for other countries you have to apply for an exemption before getting the second citizenship.

There must be other reasons for allowing turkish duals as they definitely release from citizenship (I know some people that have done this, most of them duals born in germany that have no relations to turkey).

Anyway, I hope the UK citizens here in germany can stay/become duals/whatever.

...on hearing on the radio just now that UK cities are no longer in the running for 2023 European City of Culture competition. Because, you know, not in Europe. Sigh. And you thought it would still be a possibility? Serious questions need asking about spending that money...

They also said that historically cities outside of Europe had held it so could be a bitter move from the EU to block it.

Guess we’ll see more spiteful tit for tat on both sides until Europe descends until ww3

Yeh it sucks. I am living in Sweden at the moment so who knows maybe they’ll send me packing. I am eligible for Irish citizenship but don’t want to go through the hassle of applying for it if I don’t need to. Wait and see I guess.

From what I have seen on this there are eligibility criteria for a City of a Culture- EEA membership or similar.

We don’t qualify, or rather won’t- it’s not the EU being mean, it’s us making choices that exclude us.

I don’t really buy the EC statement after Istanbul had it. I guess they were a candidate country but still.

Whether or not they should be allowed in, who in any UK city thought it was even remotely plausible that they'd win? Spending any money on it in the current climate sounds vaguely negligent.

Bread and circuses.

the law and order Twitter feed posted here earlier - @davidallengreen - re: Only EU can revoke A50 and Westminster have no say now whether Brexit goes ahead or not - any more on this, as unless I'm missing something, this doesn't seem to be such big news, when it really should be?

Yes, I've seen that thread (and its numerous retweets).

As for why it's not big news, I suppose it reflects the way in which people routinely shout down facts and serious discussion, so even (especially) important issues get lost.