Responsible meat-eating

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  • ^ this

    and

    its moronic premise.

    ... seem to be missing a fundamental point, to me (though I am an omnivore / tacit collaborator in systematic animal torture), which is the starting point of this thread: if I AM AN OMNIVORE, and am not going to stop being that, what can I do to reduce suffering of animals and the planet?

    #fuckoffvegansdoitsomewhereelse

  • I think I found more on the site:
    http://rawmilk.simkin.co.uk/
    but I guess p&p would be similar but there might be one closer to you. I think I found from that site farms that do farmers markets as well.

  • Smallholding is, in my eyes at least, the only answer for those that wish to remain omnivores. Look the poor beast that you’ve raised in the eyes as you bump it off. Butcher it yourself, take its calf away and hear the screams of dismay so you can steal her milk.
    Top up the freezer with bambi and roadkill.
    Any reason one can’t keep a pig and a few chickens in London?

    As has been mentioned, partaking in this cruelty is a choice so you really should be up close and personal with it.

  • I for one think it's moronic to ascribe the same moral 'value' to the life of a chicken as a human. It's facile. Where is the chicken Bhagavad Gita, chicken bicycle, chicken poetry, chicken internet, chicken cuisine, chicken agriculture, chicken organisations to which we can ascribe the equivalent achievements of chickens' as of humanity's? Of course none of these human things would have happened without humans learning to divide labour, and develop domestication of livestock & crops as a starting point.

    I for one think humans are more complex and morally valuable beings. I'm sticking with that.

  • I wouldn’t disagree with any of that actually. Just think that meat eaters should be prepared to do the ting themselves seeing as in our privileged western lives it’s completely optional to kill animals for food nowadays.

  • I'm fairly sure were I to look after and bump off and animal it would have a stressful life and a more distressing death as I haven't a fucking clue how to do either.

  • Then stop eating meat til you’ve learnt.
    Or roadkill.

  • Surrey Docks city farm did (do?) a thing where pigs on the farm go off to the abbatoir then come back as carcasses and they have a "Sausage Day" where sausages get made, cooked and eaten. Great for city kids. Notably they don't do it with the long term resident pigs, they get new ones in I think for a few months, but long enough that local kids will have met them.

  • Agree that roadkill is a "good" way to eat meat.

    Disagree that we shouldn't pay other people to do specialised things better than us. It's kind of how society functions. Yes it also has the effect of masking the fact that the meat on the plate was an animal that was killed to be put there, agree this is a problem.

  • No offence at all. It's just healthy discussion. In this country we may with careful dietics be able acquire all the nutrients we need in balanced way. Vegetarians can alot of the time fall into certain defecincy if they eat without thought...esp things like iron. In many countries most food is seasonal. For example Iron from spinach will be winter only and therefore meat is required to cover other times when you don't have the ability to import from opposite hemisphere.
    This is problematic too because it's not fresh or environmentally friendly neither.
    Humans as a race would not have survived if they didn't eat meat during the ice age. But when times are better farming is the most safest form of acquiring food, persistent hunting would have been quite dangerous way to get food and would have been a way to get food when need be. Until we decided to breed and domesticate them and completely f..ed there genetics to suit or vain needs.

  • When i read this thread i think - are there other adults on here that just don't really cook?

    I can but I don't have much time or inclination. I guess i have a pretty shit diet as i mostly survive on bread and sandwiches, sometimes chips. I do also enjoy the social aspect of buying food from people, and I can afford to eat out (cafe rather than restaurant) so I manage a decent meal every so often - but I'm guessing sometimes only once or twice a week. Half the time I get home around midnight and just have toast or go straight to bed.

    I'm target demographic of this thread - not vegetarian but rarely meat. Often none in a week or two. When I do it's often processed meat though, which I know isn't very healthy (sausage, salami etc). I do have a cheese problem though... I love cheese.

  • I think the Foot'n'Mouth outbreak back in 2001
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_United_Kingdom_foot-and-mouth_outbreak#Health_and_social_consequences
    resulted in changes to freedom of livestock movement and feedstock restrictions,
    making it much harder to keep a suburban pig fed on 'swill'.
    Not a farmer/not a meat-eater, could easily be wrong.

  • Humans may not have survived through the last ice age quite as far north or south but may well have been able to survive without meat closer to the equator, although I very much doubt being vegan was thought about at the time. Past is in the past though and in some parts of the world a meat free diet is a perfectly healthy option. The crap about vegetarian diets needing to watch out for certain deficiencies is not to do with being vegetarian, just poor diet, just as likely to happen to an omnivore with a poor diet, there is plenty of iron in all sorts of stuff, moreso per calorie than meat in a lot of cases. The only exception is B12 and it's easy to get enough of that in various ways, although takes a little more thought as a vegan rather than veggie.

  • As some one who does eat meat but wanting to cut back, I try to not eat it in the week and if I do it's as a small addition to the meal rather than the main bit also buying high quality cheap cuts and making them last is something I'm trying. Tried to do full veggie but kept on falling off the wagon.

  • I was raised a veggie. I had my 1st steak in Australia age 18 and had to reassess some fundamentals!

    Good quality meat is expensive ... but then because it’s pricey I’m more likely to get a bit creative cooking with it to make it go further.

    For example cooking a chilli heavy on various beans/chickpeas and just a bit of lamb/beef. Or a soup heavy on lentils/barley/root-veg, light on ham. Or a massive tomato pasta sauce with just a 50g of a beef and pork mixed and fennel and pepper for flavour.

    Meat should be a kinda special, not-cheap thing. Fish and eggs are easy protein wins.

  • Do you want to cook? Couscous is pretty easy fast food. So good they named it twice (ugh).

    I usually keep some limes and chorizo (thread derail!) or cubed haloumi to flash fry with fine beans/peppers/diced-onion. 5 mind cook time, 3 mins clean down.

  • Cheap meat is plentiful supply and those gorging on it are being poisoned and destroying the planet for there greed.

  • You're not allowed to feed pigs on household scraps ('swill') since foot and mouth. This pretty much removed the traditional smallholder / home-reared pig diet at a stroke.

    Bit of a shame in purely functional terms; a pig is superb at converting vegetable peelings and the like into meat.

  • The scrap food bin at schools used to go to pig feed too.
    I reality composting is probably even more effective at creating more food ablietly it is not meat in its first incarnation.

  • I'm fairly sure were I to look after and bump off and animal it would have a stressful life and a more distressing death as I haven't a fucking clue how to do either.

    Probably. You are correct to question the viability of individuals growing their own animals willy-nilly. Rasing livestock healthily requires a huge amount of work, skill and effort - for some people it's literally a full time job!

    Personally I have don't have an issue killing animals to eat. I've become more sensitive as I've got older, but I'm sure I'd still be able to. The reality however is that it's not required.

    Tbh I doubt if it came down to it the majority of people really would struggle either - if you're a parent think about the fucking grim shit you just crack on with because you have to.

    +1 to skully's point that this thread is meant to be about more responsible meat eating. It's great to have input from vegans/vegetarians but there is another specific thread for that.

  • Nah the vegan thread is just awesome recipes, food porn and restaurant suggestions. This thread is far more interesting for discussion.

  • The scrap food bin at schools used to go to pig feed too

    I recall this is what was reported at the time as causing the 2001 outbreak - a school caterer had bought in a load of cheap meat from outside the country (doesn't bear thinking about, really) and the waste was used at the farm in Northumberland that was the source. Dunno if this was proved or disproved subsequently.

  • You are correct to question the viability of individuals growing their own animals willy-nilly

    The big problem is land, land prices have gone up quite a lot in the past few years. The rural life becoming fashionable again hasn't helped, neither has the fact that agricultural land became a fashionable investment in more recent years.

    Most local authorities have got shot of their 'county farms' so it's not easy to get a start unless you have a big wedge of cash already.

    You can keep chickens or rabbits of course.

  • Once the daily mail get hold of a story like that it probably gained momentum to stop the waste going to the pugs.
    Tbh the reality is the pig have a hard digestive system that can digest rotten meat they are basically scavengers. I have my doubts whether that was the real cause it was probably poor living conditions. Like a pig shit as the phrase goes.

  • Because I disagree with you on certain points.

    I can't see that you do (since you misunderstood my point about historical and evolutionary precedent). You keep asserting that we need to reduce meat consumption on the grounds of our health, animal welfare, and the environment, but nobody is disputing that. This entire thread (aside from advocacy for veganism) is people agreeing that we should eat less meat that comes from more thoughtfully reared animals.

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Responsible meat-eating

Posted by Avatar for AlexD @AlexD

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