Responsible meat-eating

Quite. Go straight to vegan, do not pass go, is going to work for very few people

But yes, back to the case in point. Is anyone aware of any meat, save venison, sold in a supermarket that could be said to be ethically reared, farmed and slaughtered, by the average fixie-skidder's standards? Or is it all as unclear (and probably horrible) as I imagine?

I certainly agree that eating vegan is cheaper if you know what to do (e.g., cook from scratch every time), you have the time and leisure to do it, etc.

Many people's food habits are very different, though. Take the recent 'vegan junk food' thing. This is obviously intended to change the image of veganism, emancipate it (in that funny way), make it less po-faced, virtuous, or 'health-conscious', and is great as far as it goes and achieves those objectives--but the stuff these small traders currently produce, tasty though it is, is roughly 2-3 times more expensive than a £2 box of bits of chicken corpse from the ubiquitous schicken schop-excuse my accent--chicken shop. I'm sure something similar is true of ready meals from the freezer and things like that (although as I never buy them, I wouldn't know).

In a sense, it's not vegan prices that are high but omnivorous prices that are much too low (the squeeze put on farmers by supermarket chains), which is in turn used to depress people's wages (after all, they can buy all that cheap shit food and at least survive on much less money, even if their life expectancy goes down).

I wouldn't agree with amey that veganism is a 'privilege'--I know people who have successfully been vegan on very low incomes--, but I agree with him that there are societal trends that at least make it at best aspirational for many people. It's a case of the ever-widening circles of cultural practices. If said practices become more popular, this at the same time lowers the bar to entry in all sorts of ways that hadn't previously been considered possible.

so when do I cook and sleep and catch the 7:50am train?

Is that it?

a forum for somewhat impractical bikes

Now you've done it. Burn him! :)

This guy has put what I was trying to say in a much nicer way.

As it's a cycling forum, what are peoples thoughts on roadkill. I mostly mean recently dead pheasants and rabits that are not too squashed. I'm not sure about more exotic eating such as squirrels and badgers but I remember seeing a TV programe where a chap had a freezer full of all kinds of roadkill which he admitted to serving up to guests and only saying what they had just eaten after the meal. His thinking was that it was all free range and a shame for it to go to waste.

"people on benefits people are just lazy" etc.

Yep - they want to have everything handed on a plate.

Roadkill is great imo. If you actively want it, go out for a country ride reasonably early in the morning and you'll likely find a clipped pigeon or pheasant that's still warm with barely a mark on it.

I've not eaten badger but the two people I know who have said it's a bit like lamb but with a very gamey, somewhat off-putting smell.

Right, I think we're actually on the same page. I understand it's not possible for everyone for a variety of reasons - I just specifically don't think it has to be any more expensive. Of course price is just one factor of your diet.

I was thinking about this a bit ago as a friend gets able+cole boxes often and I eat more of the junk. I've given up on the standards knowing how many chickens can be shoved into a barn and still called free range or whatever. Was tempted to start cycling early early morning to the big meat markets but went off the idea thinking it would be much the same.

Will have a read along all the posts later.

The Soil Association standards are prob. the best for poultry, according to CWF. RSPCA below that, then the Scottish Organic Producers standard, then Red Tractor a miserable last.

the recent 'vegan junk food' thing. This is obviously intended to change the image of veganism, emancipate it (in that funny way), make it less po-faced, virtuous, or 'health-conscious', and is great as far as it goes and achieves those objectives--but the stuff these small traders currently produce, tasty though it is, is roughly 2-3 times more expensive than a £2 box of bits of chicken corpse from the ubiquitous schicken schop-excuse my accent--chicken shop.

I went up to the Temple of Seitan in LondonsfamousHackney and bought a seitan burger for £4 but it was for research purposes so I had to heat it up when I got home to the lab/kitchen.
I can now replicate that thing for a fraction of the £4.
Greasy chickenbox schoolkids on bus 0 - seitan burger in box man 1 . :)

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Foxes taste rank. I can't believe cats taste that great either.

Most carnivores don’t taste great.

Apart from bears but they’re more omnivores.

Talking about fast food and the idea that fast food is cheap; I can't help thinking that a little knowledge (like, how to cook basic stuff) would go a long way, financially for individuals and also a net benefit in terms of lower requirement of dirt cheap meat. A lot of frozen food isn't necessarily cheaper than the fresh equivalent, it's just more convenient. Or rather, it's already made - so it seems cheap if you're shit at cooking and don't realise how little meals can cost if you make them yourself.

It's interesting that fish hasn't been mentioned yet (don't think so anyway). Is fish an easier way to eat meat responsibly or is that just another, different can of worms?

Farmed fish relies upon either
1) making feed from other fish Humans show no interest in
2) soy and other proteinaceous grains

Not enough worms to feed all the farmed fish in this world.

different can of worms?

and a different kettle of fish.

This,
https://agriprotein.com/
is the future for intensively farmed animals and fish.

Soy is pretty much a fungible commodity though - being able to select your soy grower directly is going to be tough. Selecting it indirectly - whether as a direct component of human food, or an indirect component as animal feed, is going to be nigh on impossible.

So eating welsh lamb in fact may contribute to deforestation of the Amazon.

Quinoa consumption by evil vegans is fucking up Bolivia...

Guy I work with will grab fresh birds and eat. I never have room to carry home nor do I want to spend time plucking.

Maybe we're the problematic . Deep eh?

Probably.

If you're really worried about this sort of stuff the 'best' thing you can do is not reproduce.

Why not try Live Below the Line and update this thread with your menus over the course of the week?

https://www.actionagainsthunger.org.uk/get-involved/fundraise/live-below-line

If you do it would be really, really valuable to keep a time-log breaking down your research time and shopping time.

I did it once with someone from UNICEF. Initially I thought, that's easy on a pure calorie basis, so I added some hurdles; meat at least twice, fish at least once, 5-a-day.

The 5-a-day was impossible. I got close, but a decent level of veg was only just manageable.

My biggest take away was the panic when the budget version of an ingredient wasn't available and I couldn't afford another replacement.

I've not eaten badger but the two people I know who have said it's a bit like lamb but with a very gamey, somewhat off-putting smell.

It's good as a ham. You need to be careful though as being in possession of a live one is a crime and the onus is on you to prove it was dead when it entered your possession.