Responsible meat-eating

The growth and dominance of 2 Sisters has killed a lot of smaller chicken suppliers in the UK and taken a lot of choice out of the market, particularly for the restaurant/foodservice/hospitality sector. Large suppliers prioritise the big supermarkets to the extent that a restaurant chain with more than a handful of outlets couldn't get a reliable supply of "higher welfare" chicken, even if (and that's a big if) it wanted to.

^^ the same could be said for meat too though. Airlifted, not organic, many chemicals. It's not as if we raise a goat in the back yard that eats nothing but grass and underpants.
On a calorie to calorie basis, my guess is that the meat-as-a-product life-cycle produces far more waste that any plant.

^ Similarly, livestock production is a monoculture that relies on mono-cultures to feed it. Oliver mentioned earlier that majority of soy production goes on livestock feed.

There are halal slaughter houses that operate to higher standards of "welfare", than non-halal - particularly if they stun before slaughter - but I would argue that they are in a minority.

There was a time when a lot of meat served in schools and elsewhere in the public sector was halal, just to "be on the safe side". There was little transparency or informed choice, yet Sikhism - as I understand it - prohibits the consumption of Kutha meat, meat from ritual slaughter.

Interesting thread. I rarely cook meat at home but over the past year have tried to only buy organic free range. It's obviously expensive, but changing to a mainly vegetarian diet more than makes up for it.

Great to see that more people are thinking about this. Coming from a farming/country background I've always thought "where is this thing I'm eating from" but it's amazing generally how little people think about it. I think the free range egg campaign changed a lot of things in public perception of food, and hopefully it'll continue.

@lemonade Are you a regular Farmdrop user? I only came across it this week and am considering getting veg and maybe meat from there over Sainsbury's (my only other option). Hoping for lower food miles and better quality but will still hit sainos for basics and, crucially, booze.

Developing world doesn't consume as much meat as the developed world

The developing world doesn't have infrastructure for a $65 Billion a year meat industry - as the US does.

Only used it once but it was very good service and tasty food. I only really bought meat and booze as I get a local veg box for most other things.

Half price (at least on the Bristol version) with this code:
EXTRACTCOFFEE

(You could buy some coffee from Extract in return for they code, they are also excellent!)

Actually think it was only £25 off £50 spend rather than 50% off generally

Started off quite civilized and informative?

Just to throw my hat in — me and the Mrs have been trying to eat less, but better quality meat. All well and good, and actually having a good time working out what works for me habitually. Growing up outside of London we had a local butcher, knew folk involved with pheasant shooting and I was a groundskeeper on an estate where they shot deer to control population. One of the things I really miss is the communal, ritualistic and altogether more thoughtful relationship you have with your meat (goes for veggies too). Always good to know your butcher / beater.

Have not tried direct / mail order yet, but have been looking at farms / suppliers recently as frustratingly the majority of local butchers in our area are now either boutique (£££), or import their meat (£). I suppose the middle ground (££) is in competition with supermarkets which probably isn't conducive to rising rent.

Maybe we should start a resource (in OP's post?) for good (local) butchers and mail order places ...

Coming from said background, I've done some digging regarding the matter. It really depends entirely on the moral code of ethics by the individual in business/authority.
What I'm sure of now is that it's really little understood by the majority of non halal eaters and the 'brutality' term gets thrown around.

It's no more or less brutal than standard abattoir procedures, which as a general rule of thumb, all really fall under certain universal guidelines (stunning) set by regulators, with the caveat that certain religious procedures are followed.

The exception being said 'moral religious standards'. Some would be surprised to find that certain halal eaters/suppliers really do care about where the livestock is sourced from and how it is killed. Just because the methodology is different, the end result is still the same.
Depending where you're from, there remains a certain 'relationship' you have with the meat you consume, and again, that depends on individualistic thinking.

Majority of halal meat eaters only buy from butchers, which isn't to say they're not crooked, but the incentive to find where the meat comes from is much more prevalent than picking up a sealed pack from Asda's halal section.
There's a lot of misinformation regarding halal meat and it's consumption. This isn't to say the meat is always to a higher standard, it's just that religious beliefs force said consumer to find meat as close to source as possible.
Whether minority or majority depends entirely on individual and how 'true' to their faith they are, but that's always flexible whatever your affiliation is.

Now saying all this, I don't eat halal anymore, but it all falls under the same umbrella for me these days. We eat too much of everything without giving a toss about where it all comes from be it meat (halal or not) and veg.
If I buy now, I try to make it as unpackaged as possible and as close as possible to where I'm standing.

Tl;DR

The water used in beef production is staggering - much debated, but staggering

a single pound of beef takes, on average, 1,800 gallons of water.

lb = 0.4kg

thats the equivalent of nearly 10 years of water intake (3.7l) for the average person.

Chicken is relatively low impact (though of course animal welfare is a separate issue).

On that a mates brother, who works in conservation and has based eating habits on environmental impact for a while, used to eat battery farmed eggs as they are a low impact protean source.

a single pound of beef takes, on average, 1,800 gallons of water.

What I always wondered: where does the water go? Back into the ecosystem?

Not all halal is equal...and I would argue all most of those who want to eat halal look for is the official British halal standard label or poster and thats all. For example one Nandos or kfc might be fine and another not.
The strictest form of halal is a slit to throat while it is conscious and verses sung.
In the loosest sense the animal is stunned and then goes down the same avenue as non halal except prayers are played and the blade has verses engraved on it. There is a lot of debate with the Muslim community.
Either way it's barbaric. Same goes for kosher.
I can bet that the chains use the cheapest and least labour intensive form to maximise profits. We just don't know whether the animal is stunned or not, which is problematic for me.

I discussed this with a friend of mine.. meat is mostly to be avioded but the tradition maintained for difficult times... ie war draught ...ice age ..etc.
The idea of sacrifice is fobidden but thanks must be made to animal and it must be slaughter in one clean blow.
In an ideal situation hunting of wild animal is preferred to slaughtering of farm animals.
This is available in UK.. but very rare now as even in largely sikh areas market forces have undercut them.

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of meat makes it to pets and livestock too.

I base that only on the easy supply of cow/pig/sheep/chicken feet/tendons/penises/cheeks/ears/gullets­/stomachs that I buy for my dog.

Right, but lots of animals are omnivores. Left to the their own devices chickens and pigs eat meet.

Interestingly you can use blood for biogas production.

Started off quite civilized and informative?

Oh, we can easily change THAT. :)

a low impact protean source

Great typo.

It's OK you can stop being smug now
http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/footprint/agriculture/soy/impacts/

On vegan 'cheeses', I find only some of the newer ones worthwhile as 'cheese'. The others are a completely different foodstuff and OK in their own right (very disappointing if you expect something like dairy cheese), but I've always thought they're not really cheese--for me, the process of production has to involve fermentation as a minimum. This is the case with the newer cashew nut cheeses, for which I'm happy to use the word 'cheese'. Try Mouse's Favourite or Essential Vegan (both available at Green Bay in North End Road). Those are already pretty good and will undoubtedly improve. Some of the pizza cheeses are all right. I've just been told that there's a vegan 'cheese' that's locally produced used in Apollo Pizza in Stoke Newington, an otherwise omnivorous pizzeria. The person who told me said they loved it, so I'll probably go and try that sometime soon.

There's plenty of videos of deer eating birds, mice, rabbits etc...

Since there is already a great vegan thread, it would be nice if this one could be about meat.

Well, I'm responding to a point that several other people have brought up. Inevitably, a thread like this will not be exclusively about meat.

My tip would be buy cheap cuts from decent butchers and cook them in ways that make them tasty.

E.g. tonight I'm having goat breast from Turner and George (https://www.turnerandgeorge.co.uk/) which was slow smoked last night. If you want to make cheaper cuts taste good the outdoor cooking thread isn't a bad place to start.

T&G reckon that "Every piece of meat we offer has been raised naturally, lived the best of lives and is completely hormone, antibiotic and cruelty-free."

I'm not always quite this on point, but I do try.

I'm all for eating less, better meat but ultimately humans evolved to be omnivores for a reason :P

Obvious point on the animal welfare front, some animals are safer bets simply because they don't lend themselves to intensive farming. Sheep are a good example although not without welfare issues.

If you know some countryside-type folks you may well be able to get hold of pheasant and/or rabbit reasonably cheaply. Again, not without welfare concerns (for pheasant) and you have to be ok with people shooting them, but you're guaranteed to get something that's been living (semi-) wild for most of its life.