Walrus Speedster

West Systems 105 epoxy + 206 hardener + 404 high density filler. I've read other people getting good results, has good instructions for various metals and uses, and it's quite available in non-industrial quantities. I think there are stronger out there, but it should be all that is needed. I've just got to get the insides of the metalwork super clean.

There is a good right-up by someone building a near identical bike here:
http://noviceframebuilder.co.uk/projects/past-projects/953-carbon-semi-lugged-road-bike.
Glad I found it as it had some tips I would have learned the hard way otherwise.

Am in awe. So wish I could do this stuff.

You can!
I started here http://www.ceeway.com + http://www.cupalloys.com with a beefy propane torch, and good hacksaw and half-round file and a bunch of youtube videos of frame builders.

(and this http://www.metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi)

Built this on my dining table:

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But you've got jigs and everything...

That he made out of vices and sledgehammers.
Believe in yourself, for that's the place to start (8)

I know, I know. Always me with the excuses. But I have set my heart on it now, which is a good feeling. And at least I know what to start looking for rather than thrashing around like an idiot. Should have bought that framebuilding book that was fs on here a couple of weeks ago.

theres a place that teaches you and you keep the frame, someone on here said its about £1500 all in, the price includes the tubes you choose so thats not set in stone.
these guys http://www.bicycles-by-design.co.uk/frame-building-courses/
pretty sure thats the cheapest for a full course and summat you keep, found one double that that sends it to africa when you finish!
when you think about it isn't that much money really, an invaluable skill learnt n all that.
I do like the justdoit!shia.gif approach tho and clearly amazing things can be done on the, er, cheap. for lack of a better term.
I can MIG steel so I would teach myself to TIGally but havent brazed since school and have no grasp of geometry, but I'm the same as you as in I don't know where to start!

Hey, Great work never seen something with a carbon rear end!

I'm just wondering about the acetylene side of things. Like where did you get it for melting brass? or are you just using silver?

Also how can you be sure that what you're doing is safe and doesn't explode?

S

No jigs. Just a vice. (I now have a couple of vices, but first bike, just one)

No acetylene, it's tricky to buy and keep, I've a little rig that using oxygen and maxy-gas (a MAPP type mixture): https://www.welduk.com/product/maxy-gas-oxyturbo-90-kits.

First two bikes were just silver brazed lugs with plain old propane. The oxy-gas is lovely, but not necessary.

BikeCad is also your friend: https://www.bikecad.ca/
The free in-a-browser version is good (and all I've ever used), but you need to find an old browser that will let you run Java Apps, and it won't tell you how long the down-tube needs to be, which is a pain, so either copy to photoshop and use the measuring tool, or print out and just use a ruler (I've done both). Err on the side of too long, and file for fit. A digital protractor is very useful, but I started with just my grandfathers sliding bevel and basic plastic protractor. Working like this just means you spend a lot of time measuring and remeasuring and squinting at alignments. Trust your eyes, they will tell you if something is in line better than most tools.

What walrus said. There is no need for anything except a vice, some sort of dummy axle, measuring things, mapp gas and string. That was all I used for my first frame. It was awful, but I used it for 2000 odd miles before retiring it. Frame building is one of those things that people blow smoke about, 'dark art, artisan master, etc etc, but it's really just plumbing in a straight line. Making stuff you want to sell is obviously different but making stuff that you are happy to ride is really not very hard. This project is too tasty for a beginner, and I'd stick to vertical drop outs as well, but if you want to have a go, buy some practice lugs and tubes off Ceeway, as well, As one of their beginners kits which has all you need to build a frame, the lugged bicycle construction book off amazon and then make a big mess!

@s.walrus I'd strongly reccomend grating yourself to the proper bikecad. You know you have the bug, it's a life time license and its a proper professional bit of kit, which allows so much adjustment and testing. You've clearly got the bug for 'different ' stuff, and bike cad let's you try before you buy (loads of expensive tubes)

https://wordery.com/lugged-bicycle-frame-construction-marc-andre-r-chimonas-9781492232643?currency=GBP&gtrck=dUhYdG5uTDVYcmc5NXh2QnZaeTFYNk5Ud1BlR2hMblJSOGF4NGltd0FhUFlIeG5ha3NFdzhib1J4QzNuQVVPYVBEZXhuMTZGQ0l6Z2cxaXJqOXBjQnc9PQ&gclid=Cj0KCQjwi97NBRD1ARIsAPXVWWBLbZl0_4l1t7c2OtayOmjTYngbfGdo7OMDrgQduJxvHI0tc3XbcKcaAtbzEALw_wcB

I keep coming close to buying it, but temptation is normally highest when I've just spent too much on tubes, reamers and bits of groupsets. I should buy it in one of my fallow years, as you say, just for the joy of designing things without having to build them to see what they look like :). Recently my beloved has used the words 'enough' and 'bicycles' in the same sentence, which I find both confusing and frightening. Will definitely get that book though, thanks.

'enough' and 'bicycles' in the same sentence

For some years now. And to be honest, this thread isn't helping. La, la, la, not listening, etc. Right, off to Ceeway to check the beginners kit...
In the meantime, tomorrow morning will take some snaps of the commuter build progress.

I'm not sure that you would learn too much new from that book tbh, it's pretty rudimentary. Paterek might be nice for you if only for the blue prints for fixtures, although there is far far more in it.

Hey thanks for the link, how does it compare to OXY?

so what was youre set up like or is it like? and where did you learn about it?

Also how can you be sure the bottle wont explode etc!?

when did you move to OXY and also what books do you recomend? Ive actually brazed a frame before but i'm keen to learn more!

I've got the Chimonas book. Its quite good but very much a beginner hobbyist book. Unfortunately I've never got round to starting a project. Got the tubes and everything just sitting there. But now I've finished Uni for at least a year I've actually got some freetime (to not make anything in).

I moved to Oxy ace years ago, although I only use it for braze ons now as we are fully tig (ig I never file another fillet I would be a happy man). The issue with ace is that no one will just refill a bottle, you need a contract, so you're hooked into monthly rental. For me it's not an issue as it's a work expense and pales into insignificance compared to argon bill nowadays, but for hobbyists it's a bit off putting. A better and cheaper and less explosive way of doing it is Oxy propane. You can "buy" your own bottle of oxygen from various places, and then swap it out when it runs out, and propane you can get from all over the place. You need different regulators and larger tips, but it's fine for most brazing that you'd want to do, and no monthly charges.

Thanks for your help,

Where would you recommend to get it from?

Also how to be safe while doing it?

Just Google local gas suppliers, it's geographically dictated to you really. I have a contract with air products so couldn't advise even if you were in London. As far as being safe is concerned, it really depends how stupid you are ;) it's compressed gas so inherently dangerous, and oxygen is a really boring and then all of a sudden really explosive gas so you could theoretically cause yourself some issues but as long as you don't take the piss I don't think it's likely you'll do yourself any harm.

I started with Bullfinch AutoTorch (4100) a 4 bar propane regulator, a standard 13kg propane canister and some vermiculite blocks to make a little insulated hearth. (This works fine for silver lugs, brass less so). Practice turning the gas off/knowing where the valves are, and have a decent fire extinguisher close by, just in case. Keep your work-space tidy and free off flammable debris . I've only slightly singed something I didn't mean to once. I think. Hopefully. Extinguisher remains happily unused. It's totally worth it for the pleasure of creating things you can cycle on.

What were you doing that you needed an insulated hearth?

Sorry to derail the thread!