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• #47052
Ok but even without making not cycling to work illegal (seat belt analogy) policy can obvs influence the choices people make. For instance, make it more expensive to drive cars and easier/cheaper to cycle. It's quite an oil tanker to turn around (literally) society wise as everything is designed for cars but look at the smoking analogy. Cigarettes are expensive and not allowed in very many places anymore so a smaller proportion of people smoke than 20 years ago.
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• #47053
You're right about the oil tanker--these policies are not being pursued because the fact it's being allowed to depend on individual choices makes it seem like turning around an oil tanker.
I think the campaigns on smoking would be very interesting to study, and I don't know much about them, but as far as I'm aware the main argument that cut through was about lung cancer (if anyone knows more please correct me). You can't make such an encapsulated point with 'obesity', 'lack of physical activity', 'shorter lifespan'--everybody fears cancer but the other points exercise (no pun intended) people a lot less.
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• #47054
Not sure if this is the right place for this copy but sure it's of interest to a lot of us:
A "dangerous" cyclist knocked down and killed a pedestrian on a busy City street then blamed his victim saying people have "zero respect", a court heard.
Charlie Alliston, then aged 18, was said to be going nearly 20mph when he mowed down mother-of-two Kim Briggs as she crossed Old Street, east London, on February 12 last year.
The 44-year-old victim had been on her lunch break when the crash happened.
Alliston was riding a "fixie", a fixed wheel track bicycle with no front break, which is not legal on the road without modification.
He allegedly shouted to her to "get out of the way" twice before their heads smashed together.
Mrs Briggs suffered "catastrophic" brain injuries including two skull fractures and died a week later.
On seeing a newspaper report about the incident, Alliston posted a comment online and claimed he had tried to warn her but she "ignored me" and "stopped dead" in his path.
He wrote: "I feel bad due to the seriousness of her injuries but I can put my hand up and say this is not my fault."
On an internet forum he described how their heads collided and hers "ricocheted" into his.
He wrote: "It is a pretty serious incident so I won't bother saying she deserved it. It was her fault but she did not deserve it."
He went on to claim Mrs Briggs had been on her mobile phone.
He complained: "Everyone is quick to judge and help the so-called victim but not the other person in the situation.
"It all happened so fast and even at a slow speed there was nothing I could do. I just wish people would stop making judgments.
"People either think they are invincible or have zero respect for cyclists."
Jurors at the Old Bailey were shown CCTV video of the collision in Alliston's trial, as Mrs Briggs' widower Matthew looked on.
The defendant had been riding a black PlanetX carbon frame fixed rear pedal cycle which is more commonly seen racing at the Olympics Velodrome, jurors were told.
Racing bikes known as "fixies" used by the likes of Sir Chris Hoy and Laura Trott can only legally be taken onto the streets if they are fitted with a front brake, jurors were told.
If Alliston had been riding a bike with proper brakes, he would have been able to avoid the collision with the HR consultant, prosecutor Duncan Penny QC said.
Alliston, now 20, of Trothy Road, Bermondsey, south London, has denied a charged under the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act of causing bodily harm to Mrs Briggs by wanton or furious driving.
In a legal first, he also faces an additional charge of the manslaughter of mother-of-two Mrs Briggs, of Lewisham, south London.
Mr Penny told jurors Alliston had bought the bicycle for #470 to use on a track in January 2016, but in reality only used it on the road.Alliston told police he had been riding a fixed wheel bike since 2014, having removed the front brake from a previous model.
In 2015, he tweeted about it saying: "The time when you first take your brakes off and feeling like you're in a @lucasbrunelle movie", in apparent reference to an American bike stunt film-maker.
Mr Penny told jurors: "The Crown suggests that what the defendant was doing - riding a fixed wheel bicycle without a front brake through a busy area of central London at nearly 20mph at lunchtime when hazards, such as pedestrians stepping out into the road, might well be expected to occur in front of him requiring him to react - was dangerous.
"What he was doing was such that all sober and reasonable people, knowing the circumstances as he knew them to be, would inevitable recognise it subjected other people to the risk of some harm resulting there from."Matthew Shaw was on his way to buy a Valentine's card in his lunch break when he heard someone repeatedly shout "get out of the way".
He told jurors: "I just saw a high impact collision between a cyclist and a lady who appeared to be crossing the road.
"The cyclist seemed to collide with the side of the lady. The lady landed flat on her back.
"He also was knocked over but he stood up whereas the lady didn't and her phone came across the road towards me.
"I went over to the lady on the floor who seemed to be unconscious and unresponsive so I called the ambulance."
While more people came to help, Mr Shaw said a delivery man was "unhelpful" and lowered the back of his van "extremely close" to Mrs Briggs' inert body and continued with his delivery regardless. -
• #47055
(post removed)
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• #47056
.
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• #47057
I suspect we should not talk about this here considering you have literally just read that posts here are being used in court.
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• #47058
Regardless of culpability/innocence/views on how a situation played out I think a big lesson is not to make public posts about what happened in the immediate aftermath.
(Not to avoid justice I might add, but those comments will have a massive impact on the case rightly or wrongly).
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• #47059
It's all such a mess and makes me really really sad.
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• #47060
Are you sure? Thought was Evening Standard comments
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• #47061
Amazing that they use the OAPA when the resulting sentences are much harsher than the legislation applicable to drivers
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• #47062
Manslaughter? What about all those cyclists mown down each year by twats in cars who only get charged with careless driving?
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• #47063
they had front brakes
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• #47064
Damn, I remember the original posts when that happened.
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• #47066
Looks like this is the guidance here
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_prosecuting_cases_of_bad_driving/#a20
Guess this is the most relevant partDriving carelessly or driving dangerously do not, on their own, amount to unlawful acts for the purpose of unlawful act manslaughter. Andrews v DPP [1937] A.C. 576
Unlawful act manslaughter should, therefore, only be charged instead of causing death by dangerous driving where there is evidence that the driver either intended to cause injury to the victim or was reckless as to whether injury would be caused.
Not sure how that ties in with the current case though.
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• #47067
This :(
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• #47068
"or was reckless as to whether injury would be caused"
That's what they're trying to establish with all the talk about him taking his front brake off.
"What he was doing was such that all sober and reasonable people, knowing the circumstances as he knew them to be, would inevitable recognise it subjected other people to the risk of some harm resulting there from."
This section of the prosecution's argument is a textbook definition of recklessness.
Edit to clarify - legally that doesn't mean he was or wasn't reckless: that's for the jury to decide. The prosecution is arguing that he was, and is marshalling the facts towards such a view, and is using a turn of phrase that captures well the legal argument
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• #47069
Berlin has been nicking so many of my mates in the past 5 or so years that I somewhat find this headline not surprising:
"Berliners frustrated over restaurants where no German is spoken"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/14/berlin-restaurants-german-english
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• #47070
Came here to post this, I was reading the thread as he was posting and was then shut down, I think about it every time I pass the spot where it happened and this one incident changed the way I ride
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• #47071
Whilst we're all shitting ourselves trying not to say anything about this case, over on singletrack, no such concerns.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/charged-with-manslaughter-riding-a-fixie
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• #47072
Sounding the Conch of Assistance here - I have made a wager (£50) that I can locate proof of white supremacists/alt-right trolls/American Nazi party members stating that Trumps feeble condemnation of today is purely something he's done for the media, and that his support of them remains unswerving.
If anyone spots such a thing could they post a link? Thanks.
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• #47073
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• #47074
Grazie - that was directly after his initial "many" comment, what I'm specifically looking for is a similar comment following his denunciation of the KKK etc that he made today.
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• #47075
One thing that might be a problem for this kid is that when a driver ends up in court on a similar charge, they're in front of a jury made up of motorists and they're all thinking 'shit, this could be me,' and remembering all the times they nearly hit a cyclist or a pedestrian and I think they're reluctant to give guilty verdicts.
Imagine a burglar being in front of a jury of burglars?
He's probably going to be in front of a jury made from motorists and pedestrians who dislike cyclists - I think that's a very strong possibility.
Nah, go and find it yourself, you lazy wotsit. :)
Seriously, it's all over the place. You can start with NICE (although it's about walking and cycling):
An evidence review:
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ph41/evidence/synthesis-of-evidence-pdf-430225309
Overview page:
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ph41