Motorcycle and Scooter appreciation

True that. Power corrupts, etc. But being fired out of a cannon, monster grunt is one of the great joys of two wheels. Basically you've got to think of motorbikes as less versatile bicycles. Which means you absolutely need more of them.

Fortuitously adding more to the insurance is usually pretty cheap. I'd have about 10 if I could get away with it, nothing desperately expensive.

Lightweight Sportsbike
Superbike
Italian Superbike
Lightweight dirtbike (x2)
Adventure bike
Supermoto
Mellow road bike
Pre-war Brit Single
Moto Guzzi. Pref old...

That's 10! And I forgot race bike.

I may need therapy.

Depends what she's after. A twist-and-go modern scooter will be very smooth and easy to ride. The PX is more involved: there's a clutch and gears, plus a back brake on the floor and a from brake on the bar. It's all a bit more engaging and charmingly shit. I love them. But I can see why others would like a plastic bike where you twist to go and pull one lever to work both brakes.

Is it 2 speed? I wouldn't be able to ask her, it'd be a surprise.
Of course it all depends on what I can afford. I'm sure she hasn't considered that older bikes may be harder to ride but I know she's not keen on a modern scooter and I've told her before that some older ones had gears etc

Maybe consider a sporty 250 or 300 as a first bike.

If your dad isn't that fast any more, you'll have no bother keeping up. They'll be much cheaper to buy, insure and ride and i think you learn a lot more about the physics of a bike on a lighter one like that. Plus, you can red line them all the way around town and avoid prison.

This is absolutely what I would do otherwise, I just thought it would be kinda nice to get the same, albeit smaller version, of my dad's bike.
But I suppose it comes down to what's on the market locally when I'm looking too

You have four gears. One of the greatest things about it is late-changing through them, and the naughty little burbles and pops they make as you change down.

Hornets are pretty quick, I agree with soul that you will learn more (and potentially live longer) starting off on a smaller bike. A 250 or 300 will be more than capable of meeting and exceeding many speed limit you find in the U.K.

For the other half have you considered a more modern Vespa/piaggio thing? Old Vespas are fun and nippy but things like reliability, gear change grip shift and clutch on left hand, throttle on right and pedal brake could be a challenge for a noob.

No idea yet, so if you know the city could I drop you a PM?

To start I'll be in Brooklyn. Rents there are crazy so pretty open really. Also will be reliant on sublets as min tenancy are 1yrs.

It'll need to be commutable to Manhattan by public transport. Since moving to the 'burbs here I'd like to feel like I'm living in the city... and now where too dangerous. Other than that I'm totally flexible.

They've been okay so far, but I've never had to make a claim. I have over 10 years ncb, but I live in EC1 ... hence the variable pricing I get offered. Bike's parked in a garage, but with no other security except an average chain.

@Soul @TM what sort of bikes are there in that category. Looking for something reliable, fun, and stable, so 250-400cc up to I suppose £2k, preferably less.

cbr250?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2012-12-HONDA-CBR250-RA-B/372001940453

gw250?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2013-Suzuki-GW-250-Inazuma-low-miles-PX-and-Delivery-Possible/172766790768

@PhilDAS - I half agree with Soul and TM about a 600cc. But it really comes down to your riding, aims and budget.

go the cheap 250 if...

• main riding is in the city
  
• some country roads
  
• almost no motorways / high speed dual carriageways
  
• planned to sell the bike in <18 months once you have a better idea of what you want
  
  

Buy the 600 if...

• you just want one bike for the next +18 months
  
• will ride longer stretches on faster roads possibly with a pillion
  
  

Originally I was looking for a Hornet as my first big bike. I only ever had a tiny go on one but it fitted what I wanted*. The problem I found is that they're (relatively) desirable and expensive. Shit ones are knackered, good ones are appreciating. The other ones I looked at which possibly offered better VFM were:

• bandit (great bike, but bit heavy)
  
• old SV650 (sports bike feel)
  
• new SV / Gladius (great to ride, light, easy, etc. but iffy resale and marmite looks and you need to make sure you're ok with the seat on the new SV)
  
• ER-6N (just as good as the new SV and MT07 really, not sure about resale value)
  
• MT07 / XRS (spot on first bikes, on balance my favorite out of the above)
  
  

I was going straight for a 600c because my commute has a couple of fast and windy dual carriageways with even faster drivers. Plus I'd been riding the same route on a quickish 125cc - so knew what I wanted.

Other things to consider:

• 500c bikes - lots are replacing 600s, there's a reason but it escapes me.
  
• fairings - make any high speed journey a million times easier, but lack of wind incorporates faster driving (eg my scram has an effective limit of 85mph)
  
• ULEZ coming in means if you're choosing a bike to keep you want something >EURO3
  
  

*a really common, light, cheap, 600cc Jap bike... so I bought a 900cc Triumph

gsf 400 bandit...Kwak er5...ktm do loads

Also forgot to ask the obvious question, are you over 24?

If not then IMO you may as well get whatever A2 bike fits your budget.

A main point there is you had already been riding a 125 regularly - I think a 600 makes sense if you're already riding regularly but could be a bit of a jump to start from scratch on.

100% agree.

I do think it might be a bit of a jump too to hop straight on a 600. I'm 25 yeah.
I probably should have been clearer with what I'd use it for which may have helped. It'd live with me in London but I'd continue to cycle commute. It'd be for weekend rides, going to the girlfriends parents in Sussex and occasionally blasting up home to Shropshire on the motorway approx 3 hours ride/drive

Edit: Often with the other half on the back

Definitely a mistake to try and buy one bike that does it all. At best you end up with one capable bike that is compromised in every department.

Downside to owning lots of them is the constant maintenance and never getting any of them in top condition because another one is crying out for money/attention.

You've got to start somewhere though. At the moment, threat of theft aside, the 300 class looks interesting. Especially if you're just starting out in London. It won't be much fun 2 up out of town though.

Scooter for a first time rider, definitely consider something with ABS.

3 hrs motorway ride + pillion = >500c + fairing

IMO there is no escaping this.

My gut says try and get a fast 125cc now to gain experience and use to practice for your test. To get a full license you'll have to ride a 500-600cc bike anyway.

Something like a CB500X could be a good shout. Easy to ride. Practical. Not too heavy. Can't remember what the wind protection was like though. Engine's not as smooth as something like a 600 Bandit, but imo it's an easier starter bike. Kawasaki ER6F also a good one to look at.

Just exercise caution, don't be a dick, and test ride everything you can.

Just exercise caution, don't be a dick

I think I've got it, yes I want to have fun riding 2 wheels but its also largely just a more practical mode of transport than car for living in London. As I said, I consider myself a very sensible driver and when I have a passenger especially, I border on painfully boring.

Thank so much for all the help and suggestions guys

I could potentially think about getting a 125 to practise on, after cbt but before test. Would have to be scrambler style I'd think. Not a fan at all of sports style bikes with toy engines and pee shooter exhausts RS125 etc

Never ridden a 125cc faux-sports bike, so it's hard to comment. But yes, I felt the same. Scrambler style bikes have the advantage of a higher ride height and often give a better view and road presence for their size. But looking a bit cooler means 2nd hand prices will be higher.

The counter argument would be that a Honda CBR125R/similar should be relatively comfortable doing 70mph - which then opens up practice motorway riding on dual carriageways.

I rode to Portugal 2 up (large me and tall mate on the back) and returned solo with luggage on a naked NtV650. Naked bikes really aren't that bad until you hit 100+Mph imo. #justsayin

I went from a 1970s Vespa to a Honda CBR125R when I wanted to actually pass my bike test. Not my style of machine at all but I went for it over something not 'sporty' because it had things like 2 wheel hydraulic disc brakes, 6 gears, a rev counter, and a fuel gauge, all of which were most welcome.

RE: Learning to ride
When i did my CBT my instructor said i should go buy a 125 and ride it until it isn't fast enough anymore, then come back for big bike lessons.
I took his advice and got a CBF125, after a few weeks of daily commuting i stopped talking myself through the actions of gear changing (throttle off, clutch in, tap up, clutch out, throttle on) and realised i knew what i was doing (quite an elating moment really).
After that, the next milestone was filtering, the gap in traffic is tiny, then its slightly bigger, then you wonder why you spent so long queueing and happily bomb down between cars/ lorries.
Finally i was full throttle all the time and i knew it ws time for a proper licence (also office moved to Dartford so was riding the bridge/ tunnel but couldnt use the M25 so had to use slower roads to get there)

I would suggest doing your theory test as soon as possible if you are wanting to go full licence, especially as if you fail there can be a big gap between slots.

When doing full licence, i spoke to myself the whole time, talking myself through each step, especially "indicators are on, on, on, turn them off" and "lifesavers, lifesavers, lifesavers" both are really silly fails.
Also exagerate head movement when looking in the mirrors, turn your whole bonce, not just your eyes.

I bought a 700cc Honda Transalp, which is large and underpowered. good for commuting, can hit it a ton easy enough (I have been told...), I think I've done 20k miles in the last 2 years on it and am quite happy.
Only really notice its lack of acceleration when I am trying to keep up with a bigger/ sportier bike, out drags 4 wheeled vehicles as only a motorcycle can.