In the news

In other news, it's going to be interesting to see what Macron does with his majority. If status-quo liberal centrism is the solution to the world's problems we're about to see it first hand.

For what it's worth, the way I divide these things up in my little brain is that terrorists are people who imagine that as individuals they can wage war against states. They love being considered terrorists because it validates their hubris to be able to have their acts thought of as acts of warfare. The reason why so many are willing to risk/actively seek death is because they consider themselves soldiers in (non-existent) armies.

Roughly the same pattern even applies to guerilla forces spread out over large areas, although obviously their lack of statehood doesn't preclude them from assembling large numbers of people, and they might even eventually succeed in establishing states. There's still a distinction between them and opposing forces in a civil war.

Obviously, lone wolves can consider themselves connected to Internet propaganda or any old guff put out by some group, but I think a hate crime is different from terrorism in that the perpetrator doesn't consider themselves acting particularly against a state, but against other individuals or a group of individuals, so someone shouting 'I want to kill Muslims' wouldn't be a terrorist under that heading.

At the same time, to me none of these distinctions matter. I consider them all common murderers.

RIP unknown victim (and here's hoping that nobody else dies as a result of this).

depending on which church radicalised him . most likely stella artois selling one ?

This was my thinking though I'd never have put it into words so well. Thanks

It's OK everybody, Katie Hopkins has said she's going down to Finsbury Park mosque and is going to sort it all out

Prime Minister Theresa May says the terror attack near a north London mosque is "every bit as sickening" as recent attacks to hit the UK.

Calling a spade a spade - although now its been said it feels frustrating that the qualification needs to be made, clearly tit did though

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40322960

@citron for whatever it's worth, the silence at work this morning was heartfelt sadness. sorry for my hamfisted words before. if the push from Dawn Butler contributed to the official announcement of a minute silence, that's a good thing.

no silence announced in our office.

i heard about the minutes silence on twitter at 11:03 :/

Yeah, no-one mentioned it here either.

Compassion for a man who tried to take his own life is probably a good starting point.

I don't think there's a hierarchy of reasons for suicide or mental health issues... Things that seem "trivial" to some of us are very serious to others.

I'm not sure he has given detailed information on what drove him to the point of suicide. Probably best not to guess it was just over money, or to judge him if it was.

Lol.

He's championing the other victims, trying to ensure that everyone who got robbed by the scam is provided with professional advice by the bank as not many have rebuilt their finances to the point he has to be able to afford to hire advisers. Part of the campaign seems to be telling his story of the despair he experienced and the mental low point others must also have gone through to get people thinking of the human/emotional cost. I applaud what he is doing as he could easily have just taken his own settlement and run, but he is refusing to do so until he is satisfied that a fair process is implemented for all.

The failure of something you've invested a lot of your emotions in can be highly distressing, completely besides the money involved. It's not fair to cast aspersions on any despair that drives someone to contemplate suicide.

lol, oh dear.

Go easy on the beers, its only monday

aren't these announced* 1 minute silences normally picked buy companies and communicated in advance to their employees ?
*e.g. http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/19/minutes-silence-for-grenfell-victims-to-be-held-at-11am-today-6718473/

I don't think we can dictate to others how we feel. For you money seems less a deal, but I think reading the whole thing that it's not so much the money but the feelings around the event of shame, failure etc...

Usually it's not about the "thing" but what reactions it generates in us. And we are not all Zen buddhist monks training to take whatever in life with no bother :)

[debts can feel like a personal failure for example...]

a hate crime is different from terrorism in that the perpetrator doesn't consider themselves acting particularly against a state, but against other individuals or a group of individuals

The right wing tabloid press for example ?

For what it's worth, the way I divide these things up in my little brain is that terrorists are people who imagine that as individuals they can wage war against states.

Yes this is something I've been thinking about comparing the state's response to London/Westminster bridges (immediate Cobra meeting etc) compared to the poor response to grenfell from authority.

In the bridge attacks the establishment was attacked directly because the perps represented an ideology that is anti-our establishment. The victims of the Grenfell tower who would have really benefitted from a strong and coordinated response, an immediate look at the death tally etc were so not establishment that it really took a while for the state to move

Well just talking about it and his own change of perception helps a lot. So in a way he is championing the issue.

The 'quick' response from police/fire services both bridges and Grenfell ( 8 - 6 minutes ?) appears to be the first and feeble positive comment from government/establishment every time - like thats all we've got.

Well the Tories know we have all been complaining that closing Police stations, ambulance stations, (and privatising many ambulance services), fire stations, are unlikely to reduce response times.
The Tories thus have to resort to claiming that response times have been adequate in order to justify the selling off of the sites formerly occupied by these services.