In the news

I understand this theory.

However the rate at which that suspected PIR cladding catches and spreads I can't help but think being told to 'stay in your room' was a death sentence.

Maybe it would have made no difference.

Met Police commander Stuart Cundy has said he "hopes" the death toll doesn't reach three figures. So clearly well north of 50 as a minimum. Likely to have been numerous unknown occupants, sub let flats, etc etc.

Thoughts are with you x

This is a strong front page to put pressure on the government. I'm in two minds about how the top bar about requisitioning will work, though - I think there's a lot of aspirational rich who will read it negatively even if it's an utterly reasonable response to disaster.

Safety advice has not been adapted to deal with new hazards, which the state should, if the civil service weren't cut to the bone, be keeping an eye on. The new hazard is a function of new building practices, I think - the same problems have popped up in new builds in UAE, for example. Although there the cores of the buildings were newer and so better designed to deal with the possibility, so many fewer lives were lost (although people still lost their homes). Slapping the same materials on older buildings that weren't designed the same way without thinking through the risks may, IMHO, have been part of the problem.

Also re fridge guy - there was stuff in the residents' blog about power surges (see here) that weren't addressed. I think it was very wrong of the journalists who said it was a 'faulty' fridge to leap to that conclusion - I wouldn't have run that line without evidence.

https://www.facebook.com/andy.wright.3726613/posts/10158771441015024

So we're fairly certain at this point that it was the cladding?

Who would prefer to live in stranger's house instead of a hotel?

EDIT: not exactly true then..still, hotels seem more efficient in the short term.

.

Who would prefer to live in stranger's house instead of a hotel?

Me.

Probably anyone with a family.

The Times headline is misleading as it conjures image of rich folks being booted out of their home. The properties are empty, not 'homes'.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/grenfell-tower-fire-deaths-homeless-kensington-and-chelsea-luxury-properties-empty-a7791671.html

Yeah that was my immediate thought too

the usual blue tick suspects on SM who are puffing their chests up at the prospect of empty homes being temporarily seized to house people who've just lost everything seem to have had little to say when the residents of the heygate estate were hoofed out of their homes a few years back to make way for foreign investors. howbow dah?

This is actually sickening

Truly sickening, thankfully not all publications are taking this line.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/why-is-cladding-banned-in-the-us-and-germany-used-on-buildings-in-the-uk-6712578/

The flammable panels sell for £22 per square metre, just £2 cheaper than the fire-resistant version, which could have been used for £5,000 more as 2,000 square metres were used.

So we're fairly certain at this point that it was the cladding?

Some discussion on Today this morning about how it could have been a failure to install it properly and that fire breaks should have been installed to stop the fire spreading across the face of the building.

That said The Times front page story seems pretty damning if the manufacturer is saying it shouldn't have been installed on a building that high.

All this apparently to save £5k, it's outrageous.

Sounds like a perfect storm tbh.

Highly flammable cladding.

Redundant fire alarms.

No sprinkler system.

One fire escape.

Worrying thing is about 4000 other tower blocks across the country with potentially the same powder keg refurb.

You do have to wonder how that cladding was available as a product in the first place.

This is the product brochure for the cladding (Reynobond ACM which stands for Aluminium Composite Material):
https://www.arconic.com/aap/north_america/catalog/pdf/brochures/Reynobond_Brochure.pdf

It says nothing about insulation, it just seems to be for cosmetic purposes. Can anyone confirm that who knows what they're talking about? @hoefla ?

You do have to wonder how that cladding was available as a product in the first place.

The company sales rep said in that Times article that it's used for small commercial buildings and petrol stations - i.e. where there are much smaller areas involved and fire spreading across it wouldn't make much difference. Seems reasonable in that application.

If it is just for cosmetic purposes as I'm reading it, it does just seem to have been installed as a veneer to make the building look better for people who don't live there, and you have to ask yourself why that might be and why the money wasn't spent on actually improving the building in a meaningful way...

Some cladding products leave a cavity to be filled with insulation, vented to avoid pressure differences driving rainwater in, but with firebreaks at ceiling levels and windowframes. Others have the insulation built into the cladding panel.

The integrated version is easier and quicker to install, since you don't have to separately handle and secure the insulation, but if installed too far from the bricks and without proper firebreaks, you've created a chimney.

The cladding should prevent damp seeping through old brickwork, but given they fitted come kind of communal heating system, I'm not sure how much the residents would have benefited from the additional insulation.

I guess if 20 people killed in a terrorist attack is enough reason to scrap the Human Rights law, the same amount in a preventable fire should be enough for some serious legislative change as well.

An interesting contribution to the 'empty homes' narrative

http://lselondonhousing.org/2017/06/overseas-investors-and-londons-housing-market/

The reason papers/press talking about large numbers of dead is fire crews and police have off the record spoken of groups of bodies found in stairwells, inside flats and on the roof.
Obviously every news organisation will want to put a figure on it.
Terrible truth is we may never know the final number.

Did you see the May interview? "If there are lessons to be learned.."

If? If? Ffs, I think we already know there are a lot of lessons to be learned here. This morning a BBC reporter tried to speak to Gavin Barwell as he made his way into Downing St, he completely ignored her.

I don't know who is advising these Tory arsewipes, but they clearly aren't human.

Javid is going to scene this morning.
Clearly chosen to go earlier rather than later as much less risk of him feeling the community's anger first hand.
Tories know they are v vulnerable on this tragedy

I think the recent bombings the election result and now this will bring down the Tories.