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Some people believe that we have an out of control welfare state that is being abused by workshy druggies and immigrants and they find it distinctly risible that they should fund a free and easy lifestyle for those people with their hard earned money that they've had to work terribly hard to earn. If you can't acknowledge that view point and counter it effectively then I don't think you can ever convince people.
Yeah this. For me it comes down to an ideological distinction which I can't see any way of discussing, either you feel one thing or the other.
I believe the State has a moral obligation to work against the Capitalist system, and redistribute wealth from the top to the bottom, to even out the lottery of people's birth and upbringing. Any Government which works in the opposite way, of privatising essential services to make a profit and redistribute wealth upwards, is morally bankrupt.
Tax me more and make a better country.
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Drakien
Prepare for mad brain fart but my mind is in overdrive:
I don't think you can win over those people who currently believe that Labour fucked the economy, even those who I hear and read who concede it was a global issue believe that Labour should have been saving more money when times were good in case of this huge economic downturn (that nobody predicted save for a few geniuses who made a shit tonne of money out of it).
So you've got this gigantic group of people believing that our only hope is austerity, because we need to reduce that deficit.
My issue, along with other people, with austerity is that public services are being under funded and people are suffering because of it. NHS, schools, social care, all the public services.
The right (as opposed to left) response to this is often, well actually, funding has increased over the last however many years.... but the problem is that it is hasn't been in line with increased demand. well demand wouldn't be increased if we didn't have all these freeloaders and immigrants, Labour are just going to make it more worthwhile for people to live on benefits, why do I have to pay for other people to sit around doing nothing
And I think, personally, to me, what a lot of it comes back down to, and it always will is this:
Some people believe that we have an out of control welfare state that is being abused by workshy druggies and immigrants and they find it distinctly risible that they should fund a free and easy lifestyle for those people with their hard earned money that they've had to work terribly hard to earn. If you can't acknowledge that view point and counter it effectively then I don't think you can ever convince people.
The other, more current issue seems to be the opposing views on the deficit/debt. Spend our way out or cut spending?
At the current rate of austerity, we will reduce borrowing to £0 annually by 2022, in 5 years. Once we're at 0, we will still have an absolutely huge debt. From 2007-2016 we've gone from 36% to 85.9% of GDP, GDP is still rising, but our % debt increase is slowing. Based on back of a fag packet prediction, our % of GDP debt will level around 2022 as well. So from 2022 we can stop borrowing supposedly and start paying back debt, so maybe, by 2030 - 2035 we're back to where we were in 2007.
In that time, how many people have suffered or paid with their lives as a result of impacted public services?
On the Labour supported model there needs to be more discussion beyond public services. How will spending stimulate the economy? I want to see more Economic papers by real experts supporting these theories. I want to see how beyond supporting those in need we're going to create new jobs for those out of work, because right now, to me, it looks like Labour are headed to UBI without talking about it. Is that a good thing? I don't know... is that basically communism? Isn't that what everyone on the right is scared of?
I am also sick of sound bites from both sides, we're all guilty of this.
It's just as bad to bang on about "costed manifesto" as it is about "IRA links". Everyone is just latching onto whatever the media from each side is throwing. Ugh, I just want real, open discussion, with people admitting that they don't know things but they want to find out.