General Election June 2017

Same here. I'll vote for it.

Shame about trident but...

yup. there wasn't much in there that I wouldn't want in there. Hell, there is lots in there that I know will strike a lot of chords with almost everyone I know.

And yet, I think some of those people will still vote tory.

and it has to be remembered even if this has been fully costed as the claim goes and is fairly detailed, there is a long distance between election pledges and tangible results.

But I like it.

Labour needs to change its terminology.
I'm all in favour of a redistributive tax regime,
but the 'tax the Rich' is easily respun as anti-aspirational,
as most people would like to earn more, especially those in precarious employment.

Substitute 'the Rich' for 'the Greedy'.

The 'Greedy hedge fund manager' ensures s/he receives capital gains rather than income to achieve a lower tax rate.
The 'Greedy company' replaces its employed workforce with self-employed operatives to avoid paying pension contributions/holiday pay/maternity pay.
The 'Greedy business wo/man' has offshore accounts to avoid UK taxation.

Taxing 'the Greedy' will make it easier for virtuous employers, and employees, to compete on level footing with the tax cheats.

Define "Greedy" You can't because that is a value judgement. None of those activities you use to describe them are illegal BTW.

Top 5% of earners is more easily grasped and is considerably less divisive.

I'd suggest "moving the focus of taxation to those who can afford it most, rather than those who can afford it least".

where 'afford' means 'avoid'.

I suggest "We'll tax those you are not"

As if taxation law and rates are not value judgements.

This is politics, nothing needs to be defined, remember 'strivers vs shirkers'?

Only seen the highlights of the leaked manifesto. Stuff I can get behind. faint whiff of it not being achievable but what does that matter?

I don't think semantics really matters.
The narrative has gone so far towards it's a forrins / the EU's fault, it doesn't really matter.

Stuff I can get behind. faint whiff of it not being achievable but what does that matter?

Curious as to what you see as not achievable? The sheer quantity of proposals? I think HS2 to Scotland sounds like a long-term plan, more than a concrete thing (although it's insane that it doesn't already exist). But (re-)nationalization of key industries and no tuition fees are things which exist in other nations which out perform the UK in many (most?) economic measures. With the economy generally, the Brexit policy is, albeit not my favoured outcome, a much more mature position to take than whatever the fuck it is the Tories imagine.

yeah, volume. but not really thought it through. Feel free to think it through for me.

I'd rather not, but I get your sense in terms of volume. Stasis or contraction seems to be the neutral gear for government lately. So the idea of things and breaking the austerity trap seems a bit odd. I think the Tories will work from this gut feeling.

Labour, the Corbyn flavour, or whatever comes after, cannot win the 'blame the forrins/EU' ploy as it is wrapped up by Nationalists, (from the bnp through the kippers straight into Tory policy), so it needs another way of framing the value and justness of a redistributive tax policy.

Yes, and I think that's fair enough. Every manifesto is aspirational, and, increasingly it seems, they get forgotten once the business of government resumes following an election. So, looking at a manifesto as an expression of a party's value, and then deciding whether it fits with your world view, is perfectly valid.

I quite like a lot of the ideas it contains, even if, as one Twitterer noted, there's a bit of a "would you like a free pony?" feel to it. Obviously the Tories will now attack it ruthlessly for its (lack of) costings. As long as they don't fire up Diane Abbott to justify the costings they might get away with it.

What a good analogy.
So true.

Renationalisation...dunno. It's the 70s? And it's no panathea either for current issues.

Though subsidizing commercial companies makes no sense either.

Ok manifesto but...with brexit I really wonder how they're going to raise the income. If companies pack up, it's hard to sell goods... Oh yeah scrap Trident but they don't?

Of course spending money on education is an investment in your citizens that pays off, same with roads. Somehow the Tories lately only seem to see investment as valid when there is no pesky riffraff humans involved ;)

Still Labour yeah...their immigration talk is highly disappointing but I guess you can't have it all.

Re: the LD refugee policy.

WHY!? Tim, it's a lovely idea, but NOT NOW PLEASE! A vote-winner it ain't...

there is lots in there that I know will strike a lot of chords with almost everyone I know.

And yet, I think some of those people will still vote tory.

This drives me crazy!
On one of the Guardian videos about the election, they interviewed some old guy from a wrecked northern town who opposed the Tories policies, agreed with Labour's policies but said Labour weren't going to get in, so he would vote Tory. WTF!

People are idiots.

Re this from Private Eye:

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There was a slightly more balanced vox pop on R4 this morning when they interviewed some 'ordinary working family' people about their views on politicians. There was an almost fair balance of assessment of each of the two leaders highlighting some of their positives and negatives. Although Nick Robinson kinda ruined it by asking closing the discussions with 'But none of you have said anything positive about Theresa May?' in order to finish on a high.

I've seen that, people seem to want to vote for who they think will win, not who they want to win.

"For the many, not the few" is Labour's "Strong and Stable leadership".

people seem to want to vote for who they think will win, not who they want to win

and someone strong even though that person is a bastard and doesn't represent their interests ... (Thatcher ?)

I do wish they'd trolled the Tories and UKIP by using a slogan like, "Let's make Britain great again for everyone".