General Election June 2017

From what I've heard from people, it's less an issue of people being sacked and losing their job to an immigrant, more that as people move on or new jobs come up they are advertised at lower rates, benefits, etc.

It's not an obvious get rid of everyone and replace them, more a gradual erosion.

We, or rather, the brexhiteers, do not have enough gunboats to enforce a new Empire. We scarcely have the manufacturing base to build them either.

uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz

83% Green
83% Plad Cumri
82% Sinn Fein
79% Lib Dems

I copped out and did the short version.

But fuck me, Sinn Fein over the Lim Dems?! Who'd have thought a bunch of ex-terrorist cunts would hold such reasonable views.

No-one ever voted SF for their views on education or their stance on banning fox-hunting. NI parties are as single issue as you like - your vote boils down to 2 questions:

What is your religion?
How much of a cunt are you?

A business will be just as happy hiring a non-unionised UK national for a lower wage.

So far the Dutch and German unions have stopped people being exploited, it's not an immigrant issue, is a businesses doing whatever issue.

[yeah I joined a union]

Anyway, I was 85% Plaid. They're doing nothing in the polls, but based on the experience here, think it's worth a sneaky fiver on them to be the next government.

82% SNP
79% Plaid Cymru
73% Sinn Féin
72% Labour
72% Liberal Democrat
66% Green

Well whadyaknow...

No one who remembers Rinks would ever consider voting for the Liberals.

#RinkaLivesInOurMemories

The obvious one is that EU workers are taking over jobs as they're willing to suffer worse pay/conditions and that is what has gained a lot of support for Leave.

Obviously the argument is that this isn't really an immigration issue, it's a government issue with minimum wage rules, etc. That is a bit of a race to the bottom though if the only protection is the minimum wage. You can see why a business will want to replace its unionised workers who are earning £15 an hour with immigrant labour who aren't part of the union and earns minimum wage.

It isn't really clear how this can be legislated against and maintain freedom of movement.

Strong, sensible rules protecting the rights of workers and setting a minimum per-hour figure would do so, unless I'm missing your point?

i.e. if you have to pay everyone the same, regardless of country of origin, then yes - there's a motivation for those nationalities whose economies are in worse shape than ours to come to apply for jobs, but there's no motivation for employers to favour a foreign national over a UK national.

That doesn't get round the issue of UK nationals simply not wanting those jobs, of course.

That doesn't get round the issue of UK nationals simply not wanting those jobs, of course.

If the rate of pay increased accordingly, maybe they would be more interested in taking these jobs!

This is interesting also, tougher immigration rules and no increase in wages =

https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/vb.6622931938/10154798945841939/?type=2&theater

I think in the Netherlands they have something like that in place
https://www.undutchables.nl/working-en-living-in-the-netherlands/working-for-undutchables/collective-labour-agreement-(cao)

What is your religion?

How much of a cunt are you?

Jedi and about a 5 I guess. So which one do I choose?

their stance on banning fox-hunting

Regarding the fox hunting ban. Wasn't until I moved down to the Cotswolds that I realised why people hate Labour down here. Is a good example of what is seemingly a small policy/law but the Conservatives campaigned hard down here that if re-elected they would repeal the ban. Ordinary folk vote on the smaller issues. Am not a fan of fox hunting, but am vehemently against one part of the country telling another part what they can and can't do. Is easy to view this a possible parable for Germany controlling the EU and telling the UK what we can and can't do (a false perception I gather)

Ordinary folk vote on the smaller issues.

Ordinary people hunt foxes?

am vehemently against one part of the country telling another part what they can and can't do.

Fox hunting is not a particularly good example of this. It's a law prohibiting a particular form of animal cruelty.

Ordinary people hunt foxes?

Am assuming you are joking. Fox Hunting is a way of life down here, is not all toffs. There are hundreds of people from all backgrounds.

All cunts.

So if everyone who wanted to be able to fight their dogs moved to Cumbria then it should be made legal?

I grew up in Cumbria, there is fox hunting there. Not for the ordinary tho, for the toffs and their staff.

That is literally the stupidest thing I have ever read on here and that is saying something.

Cumbrian Toff is an Oxymoron

You've not been reading the right threads.

Why?

The English Leave vote is generally strongest in places where people feel most disenfranchised from Westminster - the South West, impoverished coastal towns, the North East.

It's not racist or xenophobic for people who are alienated from politics in general to feel that some kind of change might make a difference in their lives, even if objectively it's not going going, especially under a Tory government.

Also, the single market and the newer entrants to it has affected some elements of British industry - either through a lower-paid workforce here, jobs being moved over there (c.f. Nestle to Poland last week) or through workers who are just plain better and harder working than British workers entering the workforce.

The latest Anywhere But Westminster video has a great line in it - there were legitimate concerns, which were expressed at the wrong target.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2017/may/04/is-this-the-weirdest-election-ever-video

Am assuming you are joking. Fox Hunting is a way of life down here, is not all toffs. There are hundreds of people from all backgrounds.

I've been here before, and found it wasn't a worthwhile debate to try and have with a london-centric forum.

Why should being on a London-centric forum mean you oppose cruelty to animals?