Hyde Park - Broad Walk cycle track changes

Yeah, it needs to be improved, the problem is, what they've done...makes it more terrifying

I don't know. Shared non-designated space generally works in making people slow down and take more care.. it might be scary, but so are Copenhagen crossings, etc. Of course, there will still be risks, and a period of adjustment..

Shared non-designated space generally works in making people slow down and take more care..

Or those with the most power - in this case goons on bikes - bully the others, the pedestrians.

I don't buy the shared space hubris - it ignores two key things. One, people are trying to get somewhere, and purposefully limiting their efficiency in doing this seems silly, and two, as above, the powerful dominate those with most to lose, the peds.

It scares the shit out of people who can't see well, too.

But.. it does actually work? The vulnerable generally feel more vulnerable at first. but the actual data usually shows that they are less vulnerable under shared space.. at least in the long term as behaviours change. Then again, there's some data out there relating to cars, about the confidence of the vulnerable user shifting as the volume of cars increases. Below a certain level, pedestrians held their ground and cars remained nervous, but over the threshold, cars became overconfident and bullied peds back to old habits at the side of the road.

I agree with you on the blind thing, which is also an issue with CC's and cycle infra outside of hospitals, etc.

Purposefully limiting people's ability to get somewhere dangerously is ok in my book. You can still get there, just more carefully. Sure, it's irritating if you're trying to get there fast, but too bad! Leave earlier! /MH chat

Beyond putting an actually segregated cycle lane in the park (park veto'd) or putting some infra on park lane (ridiculously expensive and TFL veto'd).. I'm not sure what else could be done.

If you put better (read: faster) infra in the park, cyclists will continue to storm it, and pedestrians will still walk into it taking selfies. The problem won't get solved.

The vulnerable generally feel more vulnerable at first. but the actual data usually shows that they are less vulnerable under shared space.. at least in the long term as behaviours change.

I looked for data on this stuff a while back because, IIRC, central gov. was trying to stop LAs from building further shared space infrastructure. There was a report that came out from someone heavily involved in a disability charity that basically rubbished shared space in the UK. I think.

So if you have good data, I'd like to see it, because I'd like to believe :)

Beyond putting an actually segregated cycle lane in the park (park veto'd) or putting some infra on park lane (ridiculously expensive and TFL veto'd).. I'm not sure what else could be done.

TFL and the RP need to get their act together and get the cycle lane out of the park and on to Park Lane. I think RP has demonstrated the demand is there. They just need to keep plugging away at it.

You mean Lord Holmes' report? That was mainly about safety perception and experience, not actual danger. Given that all the safety apparatus we have become accustomed to is missing under shared space, I didn't find it surprising that people were concerned. But the actual danger posed to the vulnerable was never really quantified; the only results left were those of reported incidents, which actually took a nosedive.

Whether this was because of a tendency not to report incidents under shared space or not, I have no idea.

The same trend, perceived danger vs incidents reported, happened with Kensington high street, and also exhibition road (of which I'm not a fan). Albeit during a period when reported incidents across the city were also in decline (but not by as much).

The problem with SS, to me, is that it needs bedding in before it can be assessed, and it needs to be considered as part of the network it's installed in. We can only wait and see if a balance can be struck with the scheme they're putting in here. (Although they need to fix those fucking entrances)

TFL won't do anything that even slightly jeopardises bus times. Buses are king. Especially if RP can deal with it instead.

As a side point, I thought RP's data on the perception and reality of the Broad Walk before they graveled half it was pretty much scary, but not at all dangerous. Which would make sense because it was shared space then, just as it's shared space now, just more gravelly and ambiguous.

exhibition road (of which I'm not a fan)

Yeah. It's less shared space, more weird roundabout thing and the carriageway width reduced.

Agreed. In defending SS I guess I'm implying that I agree there was a real safety problem, relative to other public spaces. There clearly wasn't.