In the news

People get stupid over fairness.

For example, if you have £100, and you give somebody £1, you get £99 they rather make sure nobody has anything, cos it's not 50/50.

It's the same thing with fraud the whole "ITSNOTFAIR" thing kicks in, instead of thinking "yeah, you always have losses, ensure fraud loss is below X and enforcing no fraud doesn't cost more than Y".

Politicians know and exploit this.

Can't see it slowing down anytime soon, even moreso with this #brexit shit.

surely not. brexit is all about looking out for the british, we're all going to be better off now, our government has been desperately trying to look out for all of us but those damn eu bureaucrats tied theirs hands so they had to impose austerity and kill all those sick people by cutting their benefits and force children to rely on foodbanks to eat.

forum tories... where have they all gone...?

EC1 Collective.

^rep.

@HatBeard dont forget the bananas

zing.

So sick of this grammar schools chat.

If the middle classes want private school style education why don't they just fucking pay for it? Rather than wasting their money on Dualit toasters and Audi leases.

Why pay for something you could make poor people pay (in real terms a lot more than you) for?

Also it gives poor people (who lets face it choose to be poor by being lazy or disabled) more motivation to stop being poor.

That's where I'm going wrong - I got an Audi toaster and leased a Dualit.

And, I went to a grammar school.

Exactly.

Typical entitled generation. Always expecting someone else to pay and sponging of the state.

And, I went to a grammar school.

/adds to ignore list

/sends topcashback friend request

That was in 1976. And there weren't many Hugos at that school. I think you might be looking down the wrong end of the telescope.

It's interesting this use of "hard-working family", I suspect what it means is "household income above (say) £100,000", because if your household income is below that point then, well - you're not hard working, are you? You are, not to put too fine a point on it, lazy, and deserve second place for your offspring.

I thought "hard-working family" meant household income of c.£50k with both working, plus dependents.

The inference being those people have the type of jobs which you'd expect make them to be "not poor" - but in real terms they are struggling.

weren't many Hugos at that school.

It's my street name.

That's weird - my second name really was my street name. Local gentry.
The hard-working thing is code - it just means 'working'. They want to say 'working', to pit the employed against the skiving unemployed, but that would be too obvious. So they say hard working, which also flatters people who are just working normally, and adds to the sense of grievance of people who are working hard for very little return. Personally I think there must be quite a few votes to be had from the idle. I know no one ever speaks up for lazy bastards like me.

Hugo - Median income for the UK is £27,500, so if a two adult household with both working that's £55,000, and the median can't define hard-working, that's just coasting along surely?

So it must be higher than that, your definition is "working", probably goofing off in a call-centre and laughing it up in the foodbank with other slackers on the way home.

Personally I think there must be quite a few votes to be had from the idle. I know no one ever speaks up for lazy bastards like me.

The poor only vote for things like Brexit, no votes in them for normal elections which is why they get ignored, if the poor started voting things might change, the lazy bastards.

In all seriousness my frustration comes about because of the fundamental dishonesty of the concept.

If there was a genuine push for tailored education (academic / practical / musical / etc.) then I would be more sympathetic. But that's not how it comes across.

It seems to be a desire for better education (which is fine), but premised on the assumption that "my child" is superior and should be nurtured to an extend in excess of the general standard of education.

From a philosophical / gut feel I like the idea of people having access to more tailored education. But that would have to be hand in hand with an equitable distribution of funding. Which is never proposed.

From a purely practical POV all the evidence that is put forward seems to debunk their use. Plus if your child really is exceptionally talented then most private schools give bursaries and scholarships so you don't need a grammar school.

They're too busy smoking Lambert & Butler, drinking non-Belgian lager and wearing man-made fibres down to the 'club' for games of pool.

Oh, and watching their massive TVs. Which people seem to really care about as it proves they're not really poor.

that's just coasting along surely?

I think WillM hit the nail on the head.

I don't think Will's view reflects the true contempt that the current government have for the majority of the people. I agree that there is a theme of division - make the working poor hate the scrounging poor and blame them for austerity - but that doesn't reflect the contempt in which the working poor are held, and the reality of the notion that the working poor have chosen to be poor by (ref JHD) buying massive TV's rather than being Barristers.

Private schools are primarily about parents choosing who their kids grow up with (or more importantly who they don't) and the social circles they move into - which is why a) that firebrand of the left and dodgy wig-wearing Diane Abbott can go fuck herself repeatedly and b) there are so many dim chinless wonders running things. Private schools excel in convincing really stupid posh kids that they're bright. Grammar schools are just an extension of this and should be fucking burned down. Private school bursaries are just a sop to charitable status.

And don't just blame the Tories for this "hard working families" bullshit - Labour have been using it just as enthusiastically since they decided "working class" was too hot to handle...

If you look at how eager the Conservatives were to go after working tax credits I think that shows you how much contempt they have or how they take essential and commendable professions and try and make the people working in them poorer or remove their dignity in retirement by attacking pensions etc. Nurses, fireman, schoolteachers etc.

They simply start at the bottom and work up.

First it's the disabled and the unemployed, then it's working poor. Soon, it'll be me.

First it's nurses and now it's doctors. Soon, it'll be the whole of the NHS.

This is no fun without someone trying to defend it. Soon we'll start arguing amongst ourselves and then by the time the Tories get here they'll just laugh at us rather than addressing the issues.

#microcosm