EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

That's why I don't read the standard media TBH, only left-wing papers point out such issues.

I think everybody hates the waste on wars and us paying for finance industry, but that seemed to not have united a lot of people cos "immigrants and the EU".

It's an easy blinder I think. And with the centre left dying on its feet (hi Labour) I don't feel hopefull :/

Here is the bill... It won't take long to read it.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2016-2017/0132/cbill_2016-20170132_en_2.htm

The big problem for me on the "who's got more to lose" argument is around the different elements of who's losing what. Frequently these arguments and articles, from both sides, are quite narrow focussed/biased around particular elements which are most commonly hung up only on big business.

That stereotypical example is around whether we're still going to want to buy aspiration German cars such as BMW. This handily highlights my point here. There are 25.8m registered vehicles in the UK, of which roughly 54000 are BMWs. That's 0.002% of the British vehicle population. The articles and arguments are only addressing a small fraction of the British-European economic function. The argument then comes down to whether the EU member states are going to fall at our feet demanding our trade or not. However, we can't lump all of our trade together under one roof as a package. It'll be broken down in to smaller chunks and some of them may do better, but others will do worse.

That's great if you're doing better. That's where the blinkered view really falls apart though. Doing better looks good but if you aren't doing better enough to prop up those that will be doing worse. If you aren't then the country as a whole will suffer. But there's also the human greed factor to consider. Even if the better were equal or greater than the worse, if you can't get the people doing better to part with enough of their increased income to prop up the worse off then we're still doing worse off as a country. Having voted for Brexit, getting it and doing the "better" that they were promised, I can't see a lot of those people feeling a sense of generous national pride with their new found wealth and I can't see a Tory leadership prepared to take bold steps needed to pry it from their hands.

I don't have all of the information available that I think is required to make an assessment, nor the knowledge required to make a credible assessment, so this is poorly informed opinion at best. I'm really just deriving this on the way I'm seeing the arguments and articles that are being put out are constructed. My view is that the remaining member states of the EU will be better able to weather the trade changes bought on by Brexit better than we can as an individual nation. I think we need them more than they need us. Also, there is a great risk of a domino effect. If the EU fragments, our efforts now as the first nation to leave could be routinely wasted as constantly have to renegotiate deals as different countries leave and potentially new groups form. We're gravely overestimating how attractive we are in a fit of nationalistic bluster.

use trident to invade france

I live in NI

really?! and to think we nearly got through a page without you mentioning it

^^ and blow up portugual instead.

ha! amazing.

Excellently written.

I'm reading on the twitter that the white paper (and related debate) will be held after the vote on this bill.

That's a tad fucked.

All this kerfuffle about how much the EU costs us, you should see how much of my wages goes to NI every month... we should be leaving there instead.

Corbyn is imposing a three line whip on the debate. Tulip Siddiq said she'll resign if a three line whip is imposed, Clive Lewis, Catherine West and Daniel Zeichner have said they'll vote against and Cat Smith and Jo Stevens have said they are considering resigning.

This in a week where he has offered his condolences to a police officer who didn't die, been wiped all over the floor by May at PMQs (even the Gaurdian said so) and turned up to said PMQs in a shiny green suit and red tie combo.

#jezwecan

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I think it's time for him to go. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone capable of stepping up.

I've been... BRM'd? :)

There are 25.8m registered vehicles in the UK, of which roughly 54000 are BMWs.

Given that more than three times that number of BMWs are registered in the UK each year, where do the rest of them go?

Immigrants steal them!

National Insurance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtgvWZuyYKc

According to here, there are currently 1,384,205 BMW's, and 490,376 Mini's currently registered in the UK, so about 8%

11 billion a year block grant?

Let's float off all the UK parts that cost money... Wales, Scotland, North of England ;)

The Germans like Ireland maybe they'll take us ;)

https://waitingfortax.com/2017/01/26/does-the-governments-brexit-bill-work/

Logically/legally, the proposed bill fails to meet the requirements to leave the EU. It's skipping a step (actually making the decision to leave, rather than just notifying the EU).

It's almost as if there may be other, overriding concerns. Can't think what they might be.

I'm potentially working from flawed data, or possibly you are. But presuming that it's me, lets assume 3x that amount, multiplied by 10 years to allow for any older vehicles matched my loss of newer vehicles., that's 1.6m BMWs on the road. I'm not sure but it doesn't seem to me that 7% of all vehicles on British roads are BMWs but, even if they are, that's still less then 10% of all cars and still fits my narrative.

Don't we make those Minis over here?