EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Ha!

And some 'bitter pilau' to swallow

PROPPAdums

thats good .. and I am actually an indian from india and everything!

Hah. I couldn't possibly comment except to say that I once got embroiled in a HR investigation because the cameraman of a Dutch TV crew I was supervising said something that could have been construed as a racist to a security guard.

Also: Geert Wilders.

Then no, there are no environmental benefits to Brexit.

If we have to make more things in Britain because we can't import them due to not being in the single market that would result in fewer cargo shipments and lower CO2 emissions.

More stuff would move around the country though which could result in local air pollution levels being higher. Also the emissions/pollution from increased manufacturing would probably negate that.

Wilders voices issues about identity and integration, society is changing and some people can't deal with this in a productive manner. So they deal with it in a Wilders manner.

Instead of getting rid of faith schools, which become byword for Turkish/Moroccan/Jew schools which of course harms mixing of people, and trying to bring people together and really tackling racism/xenophobia and make the conversation between Dutch citizens who disagree, you get a tweet from the Dutch PM that "If you don't like it here, you can go back"

URGH!

I am the first to say I am not jumping for joy seeing completely covered up women with men in swimming trunks in the pool, segregation based on sex, etc etc. because it's about men having power over women. [That's my racist nan side I guess ;)]

BUT we had all this shit in the West 60 years ago too, so let's give people a chance. Wilders doesn't want a chance he wants to just shout and have no solutions :/

Yeah referendum was a BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD idea we agree there.

But am I right to conclude you didn't think this vote through from A to B...?

I did, but I iz Dutch and I couldn't vote. UK citizenship isn't cheap, I was considering it as I feel part of NI now, but after Brexit...It doesn't feel the same you can imagine.

With respect it feels like you want Leavers to show some remorse or regret, maybe change their mind a bit. That's normal. I would still vote leave. I believe we are better off out of the EU.

After Brexit vote day I went out to a pub with a colleague who is Polish. He told me that he thinks there are too many Polish people in the UK, and that would never happen in Poland. I realised that you need sensible rules on immigration. Humans are inherently transient and who would deny someone the opportunity to go to a better country? But immigration, through no fault of the immigrants, has now become an issue which UKIP can campaign on. This is unacceptable. If this makes it a bit harder to get a work permit, that is the price you pay.

My vote was not about immigration but I thought that pertinent to share.

Would support a direct mini-Eu with the Dutch and the Irish. And the Belgians obvs.

I respect your reasoning but what has the EU got to do with the number of Poles in the UK?

The UK retains the right to reduce the number of EU immigrants entering by setting immigration and settlement requirements AND remain part of the EU. Plenty of EU countries do it. Austria even has a points based immigration system for EU citizens.

As a Brit, I do not have the right to welfare and healthcare in all other EU countries. Why do we allow it? The EU would let us if we wanted to...

There are so many Poles in the UK because the government has made a deliberate decision to boost the population via immigration. Whether you think its a good thing or not, the EU is not to blame.

Indeed. But successive governments, having all the backbone of jellyfish, allow the blame to be pinned on the EU, rather than taking responsibility.

But they/we don't want you.
WhyTF would smaller countries be interested in joining the UK when they already have BENELUX? Just for the tories to pose and show them who's boss?

Fuck. That. Shit.

But immigration, through no fault of the immigrants, has now become an issue which UKIP can campaign on.

Fine. If you want to fight that, open borders.

Pretty much the only vaguely immigration related right that being an EU citizen entitles you to is a 90 day tourist visa. After that, every country has their own rules for settlement.

Do you remember British Leyland?

Was just an anecdote, not really related. It just made me think.

I have a Polish great uncle, and was best man at my best mates wedding to a Polish girl. Am a fan of the Poles.

Is not the immigrants faults, but immigration is the perfect agitprop for the right wing tabloids, Farage et al. You open the borders and the country will vote in an even more right wing government, and UKIP and Britain First will have a recruiting drive.

And the government and establishment will sit back and watch as we tear each other apart.

I've seen things like this referenced a few times and wondered how they tied up with free movement of labour.

I can't see anything referencing a points based system for Austria on their webpage for instance, the only points calculator is for non-EU immigrants http://www.migration.gv.at/en/types-of-immigration/mobility-within-the-eu/

Have you any specific examples?

Ever wondered why America and Britain etc, are getting more right wing leaders, yet we as populous are becoming way more progressive and tolerant?

The reason the right are winning elections all over the place is down to the proletariats perception of immigration. If Corbyn came out in favour of sensible immigration reform he would clean up in the next election. Cheque please and goodnight.

Smart people have data on how useful and positive immigration is, but voters don't really study data when making decisions. Daily Mail readers don't care.

The Austria EU Blue Card Scheme. I was mistaken, its not points based but:

Applicants must:

have completed a course of study at a university or other tertiary educational institution with a minimum duration of three years,

have received a binding job offer for at least one year in Austria and the employment corresponds to the applicant’s education

will earn a gross annual income of at least one and a half times the average gross annual income of full-time employees (in 2017: at least € 59.718 which is about € 4.266 gross monthly income plus special payments),

and the labour market test (Arbeitsmarktprüfung) shows that there is no equally qualified worker registered as a jobseeker with the Public Employment Service (AMS) available for the job.

http://www.migration.gv.at/en/types-of-immigration/permanent-immigration-red-white-red-card/eu-blue-card.html

That all relates to non-EU citizens (third-country by their description). The EU Blue Card gives rights to non-EU nationals to work in the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Card_(European_Union)

thats good .. and I am actually an indian from india and everything!

If we have to make more things in Britain because we can't import them due to not being in the single market that would result in fewer cargo shipments and lower CO2 emissions.

More stuff would move around the country though which could result in local air pollution levels being higher. Also the emissions/pollution from increased manufacturing would probably negate that.

Ever wondered why America and Britain etc, are getting more right wing leaders, yet we as populous are becoming way more progressive and tolerant?

The reason the right are winning elections all over the place is down to the proletariats perception of immigration. If Corbyn came out in favour of sensible immigration reform he would clean up in the next election. Cheque please and goodnight.

Smart people have data on how useful and positive immigration is, but voters don't really study data when making decisions. Daily Mail readers don't care.

So what motivated you to vote leave?

For what it's worth, a lot of Poles are here because we gave them succour after WWII. Just saying.

That and they're stealing our jobs, our homes and our money, of course.

In other news:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/brexit-uk-supreme-court-rules-parliament-is-sovereign-1.2949737