EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

The Saltire is absolutely everywhere up here. Yes flag waving, but mostly not by people who want to make a point to piss off forrins, like what they do in horrible suburbs dahn sarf....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38664817

Brexit going to cause problems with the border, yeah no shit.

Pretty succinct take-down of the whole "plan"

https://markets.jpmorgan.com/research/email/g710g98v/q54fPe_t9deyGVFlz9mRpw/GPS-2229790-0

She looks like one of those Teacher things from The Wall

I wonder if that was intentional.

It's a shame - potentially a tragedy - that this isn't what the government is saying and acknowledging. May seems so terrified of those who supported Leave that she seems to be living in her own post-Truth bubble.

It's an expert, best to ignore ;)

Sounds spot-on and expressed in a lot more polite and formal language than similar views on social media...

Seems like the Swedish PM has said much the same stuff in an interview with Robert Peston

Also, I quite liked this comment on how free trade agreements work from the FT comments section:

The issue with Free Trade Agreements is that the idea sounds cool and
there is a lot of enthusiasm: "Let's do a FTA with everybody!!!".
What's not to like with a free flow of goods between countries??

Then you sit at the negotiating table and you discover that the other
country uses GMOs in their agriculture and maybe you don't like that
but you cannot open the free trade of agricultural goods unless you
modify your stance on GMOs. Then somebody notes that the food safety
rules are different, maybe you consider palm oil above certain %
dangerous while the other country doesn't. So you need to change the
food safety rules (or the other country does).

Then you discover that the other country is a lot more efficient at
producing coffee pressers and your coffee presser makers will all go
out of business and 1,000 people will lose their jobs. On the other
hand your scissors makers are very good and they are going to do brisk
business, however the scissors makers are based in another region from
the coffee pressers so unless you can convince those 1,000 people to
up sticks and move (and retrain as scissor makers) you will have
problems selling the FTA to the public.

Then, then, then, then...... and the list grows and grows. Then FTA
begins to sound like a difficult proposition.

Haha!

When the average intelligent webpage commenter has more of a clue than the PM ;)

So it seems there is a fundamental misunderstanding of Scotlands brand of nationalism.

Scottish nationalism is centered on where you are not where you're from.

If you live/ work/ love/ participate in Scotland you're Scottish.

Regardless of where you were born.

The fact so many minority groups are pro-Indy should be an indicator. It is for me.

Scottish nationalists come in all colours, religions and orientations.

Unlike the English nationalist. Who is almost exclusively white and bald and fat and may of may not be wearing a bomber jacket with a swastika and foaming at the mouth.

A Scottish nationalist is probably never going to start a conversation with "I ain't no racialist but....'

Scottish nationalists come in blue

FTFY

Really well put

Scotland essentially wants to be free of the small minded, parochial and insular nationalism that's infected Britain/England.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Have you ever lived in Scotland?

Least Scotland recognised BSL as an actual language.

I have as a teenager in Elgin, my mate and I spent our days running away from Scottish kids who wanted to kick our heads in for being English, despite the fact I was born in Irvine and my Mum is Scottish.

I disagree about the SNP's prime motive of nationalism. They want independence from Westminster foremost, but that doesn't necessarily mean nationalism.

I think that's probably true. My main issue with the SNP and nationalism is how they've used it to further their cause. Whipping up fervent nationalism is never nice and never ends well IMO.

You've confused the 'national' part of the SNP with 'nationalist.'

The SNP are civic nationalists and have absolutely nothing to do with flag-waving xenophobia. It's a belief in freedom, equality, tolerance, individual rights and is absolutely the opposite of British and English nationalism.

I don't think I have. Did you read the two pages prior to your post? I'd love to believe that's true but...

Freedom: An integrated ID database with everyone given their own Unique Citizen Reference Number?

Tolerance: Gagging rules on their own MPs? A 'you're either with us or against us' attitude which is creating divisions within families?

Equality: Failing to name a single redistributive policy?

I'll pay for you to fuck off there if you like?

Honest question: in what way is a unique citizen reference number different from a a national insurance number?

Tories asking for feedback on May's "plan."

The worst bit about this is that was it - her speech. They didn't even bother producing a White Paper or anything.

It's not like it's anything important is it?

It's not actually the number that's the problem but the database. It's basically the same deal as the database that New Labour proposed to go with ID cards, so has been called ID cards via the back door. You know the ID cards that Labour passed a law about then the coalition repealed because it was too authoritarian.

Tell us more about the tolerance element? The gagging clause was voted in by SNP members to ensure their parties policies and values are upheld. It stops their MP's undermining their colleagues or contradicting them. It creates a coherent message for the public. Which is something you don't see down South. Different MP's in the same party saying wildly different things all the time.

As for the ID cards they proposed to combine your ni number, your hmrc tax reference number, your council tax number, your bus pass number and your nhs number.

There were fears that they could have been accessed inappropriately so it's kind of being put on the back burner. I could probably do some reading but I can't be arsed.

The gagging clause was voted in by SNP members to ensure their parties policies and values are upheld. It stops their MP's undermining their colleagues or contradicting them. It creates a coherent message for the public. Which is something you don't see down South. Different MP's in the same party saying wildly different things all the time.

Do you actually believe that? You sound like you've just swallowed a set of brand guidelines or something!

On balance I think I'd rather have elected representatives who are free to voice their own opinions.

Call me old fashioned.

(I think you're right by the way and they've quietly ditched the database. Although they should have learnt from the wider UK ID card debacle).