EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

I'm just responding to a message insinuating I'm a hypocrite. But fair enough. I'll stop biting.

The Wikipedia entry for British neoconservatism pretty much nails it:

British neoconservatism is more socially liberal than its US counterpart, but shares a world view of threats and opportunities.

Oh and both - why are they mutually exclusive? The SNP are both nationalist and neocon.

I never said you were a hypocrite, I'm not attacking you, I'm just genuinely surprised that you can be pro-Corbyn while also saying you'd vote SNP in a heartbeat.

The SNP have created a single national police force, introduced the routine use of armed response units, a stop and search rate four times higher than the rest of the UK, and created an integrated ID database with everyone given their own Unique Citizen Reference Number. The named person law, statist gagging rules on its own MPs, sucking up to Trump, Murdoch, Souter. Anti-austerity pretence (when asked at her manifesto launch to name a redistributive policy enacted by the SNP, Sturgeon couldn't give a single example) etc. etc. etc.

The SNP celebrates everyone IN Scotland

LOL. The SNP is effectively a faith-based movement. "militant politics of sectional advantage", as the New Statesman put it.

Everything they do is with the goal of nationalism in mind. They claim to be the real voice of Scotland but they do this by cultivating a populist attitude that is sectarian at best and totalitarian at worst. You're either with them or against them, the only way to be truly Scottish is their way. The idea that they celebrate everyone in Scotland is utterly ridiculous.

I guess it's a pragmatic approach. For me it would be. There's only one issue in town for any of my electoral decisions for the foreseeable future, and Sturgeon and Farron appear to be the only politicians aligned with how I feel on it.
I have no interest at all in Scottish Independence to be honest.

Nearly forgot to mention that the SNP have frozen council tax for a decade, squeezing council budgets in what's basically a tax break for the middle classes at the expense of public services.

If that's anti-austerity I'm a doughnut.

Do you live in Scotland?

OK thanks for the info, but that's not the view I have from various people.

I have heard they are not as social as claimed to be.

But then we are back to nationalism done wrong, and what is May doing atm...?
How can you keep the UK, as a nation, together and not fall pray to nationalism done wrong?

No but my boyfriend is from Edinburgh. The SNP have basically formed a rift within his family which makes discussion of politics impossible, normal relations difficult and my relationship with the mother-in-law more akin to Les Dawson jokes than it should be.

This is all just my opinion obviously but I can tell you that the religiose thing is very much a thing.

I very much agree that May makes the SNP look like a bloody good offer. And if I lived in Scotland I'd probably vote for them for pragmatic reasons if I'm honest. Although I wouldn't feel very comfortable doing it.

That Die Welt cover - so depressing :(

So you're basically in agreement. Well done.

If we're agreed that the SNP are bad but could be the least worst option and nationalism (synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment, flag-waving, xenophobia, chauvinism, jingoism) is also bad then sure :P

Politics and religion usually means us VS them. Alas.

I have very little time for parties that intentionally whip this up but UKIP can get to fuck for example as it's their bread and butter to make it about US vs THEM. So did the leave campaign (turkey will join the EU yeah nothing to do with immigration)

We see the same now with Brexit. Can we conclude that the reasonable leavers have whipped up religiosity like the SNP does with their independence question?

Tories asking for feedback on May's "plan."

https://www.conservatives.com/leavingtheeuropeanunion

not in my browser history, this is a work computer!

If in England, I may have ended voting LibDems (even though their leader is anti legal abortion, fuckwit) over the Greens...for strategic reasons (both are anti Brexit but Greens attract very votes, cos idiot policies, the NI greens are very good and more science based)

Tcha, what's even worse to me is not the cover, it's all the idiots who can't wait to get out even though they've been warned about the risks over and over and over... I just don't know how to make clear bypassing parliament sets a very dangerous precedent and that a lot of what they want can be done in the EEC.

I gave up...

I'm also from Edinburgh, and I know what you mean about the family rifts. I disagree about the SNP's prime motive of nationalism. They want independence from Westminster foremost, but that doesn't necessarily mean nationalism. For example, I wouldn't say they were anti-immigration in today's climate.

You've confused the 'national' part of the SNP with 'nationalist.'

The SNP are civic nationalists and have absolutely nothing to do with flag-waving xenophobia. It's a belief in freedom, equality, tolerance, individual rights and is absolutely the opposite of British and English nationalism.

albeit with a fair amount of flag waving...

We get to hear about the outcome of the 'Gina Miller' case/appeal next Tuesday at 9:30am

https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/access-arrangements-for-24-january-article-50-brexit-judgment.html

And you'll be able to watch it live!

https://www.supremecourt.uk/live/court-01.html

Ordering lorry of popcorn in case of a win, and a book of nihilism for a lose ;)

There's a bit but I was using that as a metaphor in this case.

I perhaps should have thought of something else!

It's a different kind of flag-waving...

http://uk.businessinsider.com/hsbc-ceo-stuart-gullivers-bloomberg-davos-interview-brexit-and-jobs-2017-1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38658998

Did LOL at:

Downing Street later said Mr Johnson "was not in any way suggesting anyone was a Nazi".