Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

Anyone tried these
http://www.whiteind.com/cld

NIce, how does 327 USD translate into the UK market?

To be fair, Royce do specifically prohibit radial lacing on all their hubs. Building radially, seeing a cracked hub and then saying "Well, it's 20 hole you'd think you could do it despite all warnings to the contrary from the manufacturer," is unreasonable.
Radical lacing puts a tremendous amount of force through a hub flange, so choosing the right hub for the job which is warrantied for a specific spoke pattern and then using the appropriate spoking pattern is the responsibility of the end user or professional wheelbuilder.

Going back to Hope hubs, the photos seen in this thread are a catastrophic failure of a special kind. I haven't seen, personally, any other hubs fail in that manner; though what you say could potentially be a factor in such cracks.

But I do know of other hubs failing catatrophically, even if laced correctly according to manafacturer's specs. Online I've seen Chris King hub failures, DT Swiss, Rohloff, and other well known hubs. These mostly seem to be fatigue failures after many, many thousands of miles of riding, but then CNC machined hubs by their nature can have stress risers that help facilitate such failures.
I know of one very well known wheelbuilder who built a with a Chris King hub, the hub failed, and Chris King blamed him, citing unduly high tensions as a the main cause of the failure. After many years of not using a tensiometer the wheelbuilder then promptly bought one.

The one Hope hub failure I saw personally (A Hope Pro II Evo front) I believe it possible that unduly high tensions were a factor. A home wheelbuilder had a built with straight guage spokes (he had also crossed the valve hole, indicating his wheelbuilding experience was minimal) and the average tension in the wheel perhaps 140kgf+ (hard to assess completely accurately with a couple of spokes having no tension.)
IIRC there are a couple of manufacturers who don't recommend using straight guage spokes on their hubs because of their lack of faith in the average wheelbuilder's ability to accurately measure tensions.
Rohloff specifically prohibit using 13g spokes, as do White Industries on their tandem hubs, because of the same issues; plus the spoke hole diameter being too small.

https://www.condorcycles.com/products/white-industries-cld-rear-hub-shimano

http://www.hoopworks.co.uk/hubs/white-industries-centre-lock-disc-rear-hub

Yes, Royce hubs come with a yellow leaflet explaining not to lace radially, clearly it was ignored. That said, if other manufacturers are happy with radial lacing on their 20 H hubs (including Hope), then what does it say about Royce shells?

Funnily enough I recall a rear DT 240 hub failing on the non drive side flange in one of their handbuild Mon Chasseral wheels, which you can't blame high tension for. Low tension is just as bad, if the spoke loses tension and the head is allowed to dig and grind in the hole at every revolution.

My comment re. Hope hubs failures and jumping is because I know Hope is very popular among downhill riders, trial and all sorts extreme bike users... I don't think you can experience such a catastrophic failure out of nowhere, "just riding along" so to speak... in the same way as carbon frames don't open up in half while you are riding, but they might do so if you crash against a bus

That said, if other manufacturers are happy with radial lacing on their 20 H hubs (including Hope), then what does it say about Royce shells?

That they're not designed for radial lacing? Jesus fucking wept...

It's a flange with some holes, there is hardly any design secret about it... some lighter (thinner) shells seem to take radial lacing, including the 80 grams cigar shaped Taiwanese hubs

Sure? I am looking at google results of 421 and found this (scroll down):

Now I will need to call them up and confirm if they are the same rims ..

Also this:

Then these two contradictory results ..
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Mavic/EN-421-Disc-29-Felge-Modell-2016-Auslaufmodell-p45720/

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mavic-en421-disc-mtb-rim-2015/rp-prod127198

Mavic are such cunts for not documenting things properly.

I don't think they are... the top one has normal eyelets, how would you insert the nipples without a hole n the rim bed... the UST ones use FORE cups

You can't work out the potential design differences for yourself? Good grief, the signal to noise ratio on this thread really has gone through the floor. Let's see if the ignore function can make it useful again.

My Hope Pro II Evos are 6 years old,been rebuilt with new rims several times, have survived numerous crashes, cased jumps, including one very bad casing that cracked my fork steerer, broke my headset, nearly braking me, and there have been no problems. I really like Hope hubs.
I was more stating that many, many well known hubs have failure issues, whilst conceding that the pictures of the Hope hubs failing and cracking almost the full length of the hub shell is rather special.
But so far mine haven't failed so I'm alright Jack.

including one very bad casing that cracked my fork steerer, broke my headset, nearly braking me,

Must try harder

Must try harder

Quite a few people I used to ride with were happy when I injured myself. Had one guy at BPW doing a merry celebratory dance when I crashed.

the UST ones use FORE cups

You can get UST certification without having the undrilled bed, as long as you pay the fee and pass the dimensional tolerance tests. I'm not even sure that you have to pass an air seal test, UST is mostly about making sure every UST tyre will mount on, and stay on, every UST rim of appropriate width.

I thought about 27.5 for my Fugio, which is very similar, problem is most 27.5 tyres are made for MTBikes and won't fit in the narrow rear triangle. Measure it first, to avoid disappointment...

I see... I was convinced a UST rim had to be tubeless ready rather than tubeless compatible... by which I mean no need for tape.

Anyway... very annoying Mavic no longer make their FORE rims... seems like going backwards in time

Anyone know how many crosses you can get away with on a 20H track rear? Low flange hub. Undecided on rim. Probably cx ray. 3x too much?

Royce state that the hubs (except the Ti flanged hubs should not be laced radial). If someone does it it then tension must be limited and needs to be even to reduce the risk.

The hope hub failures are fatigue. maybe bad landing will bring that forward but it is going to happen sooner or later. also Hope know the hubs are going to be used by people who jump so they need to be able to cope with that. Given it happens Hope should really address the issue, maybe have with the Pro4's.

how many crosses you can get away with on a 20H

Maximum 2. In general, it's the integer part of hole count/9

I'm using Blunt SS on my Straggler at the moment, been great so far. What size tyres are you hoping to run?

Replacing a spoke on campag neutrons - any tips? Ok to bosh it in there or should I be doing a full detension? The wheel is pretty much true.

the WTB horizons are '47c' and fit with a little room.. so something around that size,

Ah cool, that's what I'm running too. Not much room at chainstay though :(

pics? (of clearance) (if you can be arsed)

Will do at the weekend before stripping frame.