Tightwaddin'

Interesting thread and, with teenage kids, I massively sympathise with @Sumo 's view. I consider myself incredibly lucky to have got on the housing ladder in an era when it was remotely possible in London for ordinary people. That said, divorce seven years ago and effectively having to buy a second house, nearly killed me as I amassed an enormous amount of debt. Having paid it off, I have been able to reassess my own priorities and enjoy a more frugal lifestyle than before.

For me, it has been important to create the opportunity to work for myself and pick and choose my hours, with all the flexibility and benefits that brings, without worrying about money and cash flow. I don't always achieve it, and there are tough months, but smaller house, knackered old car and just not buying the stuff I used to makes it work. And when I want to go on holiday or need to spend more, I work more. The important thing for me is that it's my choice.

My pension is pretty good, but I don't pay in regularly like I used to. I just put money away each month and at the end of the year I pay my tax and put the rest into my pension, keeping a little back as savings.

The improved quality of life, for me, that all of this has brought totally outweighs the pleasure I used to get from the things I spent money on. A near head-on collision on my motorbike helped me realise this.

I do appreciate, though, that I'm privileged in being able to make these choices.

Living within your means is one thing - and something that plenty of the people I work and socialise with fail at miserably - but I think the bigger picture is how heavily consumerism is pushed upon us.

I think I am very lucky to be in a position where I have a nice work/life balance and am happy with what I can afford to do and buy.

While I might like to dream about extravagances like custom built frames and Alfine Di2, I certainly don't feel that not having these things, or a brand new car or an 80" 4k telly etc etc is leaving a huge whole in my soul.

I think its incredibly sad that some people do feel like they need these things and are willing to sacrifice their time/health/relationships in order to do the overtime or work the stressful, taxing jobs they have to to get them.

some people seem to buy stuff to impress other people rather than make themselves happy

that seems a waste of money to me

But what if impressing other people is the thing that makes them happy?

Then their life will be hollow and meaningless

It's folk that buy everything new that piss away cash-i just got a new chorus bb on fleabay for £8 so in the parlance of our times, 'fuck them all to death'

I don't see that as being a tightwad so much as just using what little money I do have effectively with the added pleasure of getting a bargain.

Obvs, there's limits to this, such as food, booze and underwear, but even then, I've known people who go skip rummaging, make a decent home brew and probably wouldn't balk at a second hand pair of pants...

"save about 60% of our pre-tax income" you say.

That means you are living on a fairly small percentage of your post-tax income then? Do you eat much?

It doesn't take much to realise consumerism is fucked up.

But it's a national past-time and "retail therapy" still prevails.

Is it even possible to save 60% of your pre-tax income?!

i'm under 25 so i don't have to be paid the living wage by my employer, this means i'm only on 13k for working 42 hour weeks. Try and live a life that way

Stop blaming young people for being frivolous dickheads when your generation made us this way.

It also keeps the economy afloat and you in a job.

Blaming previous generations - old as the Romans

so is blaming the young, it doesn't matter

That means you are living on a fairly small percentage of your post-tax income then? Do you eat much?

No we're both vegetarian*. You don't pay tax on the first 11k you earn, and you also don't pay tax on your pension contributions (so effectively 20% free money). That's about 50% of my income that I don't pay tax on before the money even hits my bank account. Everyone benefits from the 11k threshold and tax-free pensions, and if you're on a reasonable wage you can really pump a lot into the pension to get a great savings rate (plus employer contributions which are basically free money).

*untrue, I occasionally eat meat when she's not looking.

Is it even possible to save 60% of your pre-tax income?!

Outside of London and with two pretty normal early-middle-aged salaries, yep. It's extreme though. No doubting I'm on the extreme end of the tightwad scale.

But again, not in London, and not with kids, not on a low income (although I think most but not all people can save). London's a choice we made, not having kids until 30 is another choice. Some people don't get that choice and that sucks.

Considering most people on this forum live in a city where on average two thirds of the monthly pay check goes on rent

Yeah that's a tricky article because there are no hard numbers in there. According to the ES the median London income is 30k. According to my very rough sample (page 20 of 42) the median London rent is 600pcm (for a houseshare). That's about a couple of grand less than I earn, and about a grand more than an equivalent houseshare in my city. So all other circumstances being equal (and I am aware they are often not) maybe it's a 40% savings rate instead of 60%. But I've never lived in London so maybe I'm talking out of my arse, I don't know.

I'm not saying saving so much is easy (especially when starting out) - it's hard everywhere in the UK because consumerism's the norm. It's additionally hard in London because of the relative cost of rent vs income.

I think it's incredibly simplistic and borderline insulting to basically say "you buy so many TV's and watches that you can't afford to buy a house".

Sounds pretty Daily Mail when you put it like that, I admit. Reading my very first post I am talking about the habits of about 20 people I know. Maybe my mates and colleagues are a particularly spendy bunch, but I doubt they're anything but typical.

I'll be clear though. If you're on a low wage, life's hard, and you don't have the choices that I do. Consumerism only makes it worse but you're not really on a level playing field to begin with. Plus there's the compounding effect of financial impotence; you can't enjoy the free money of an employer pension if you can't afford the 5% sacrifice in the first place. I campaign and vote against it, for what that's worth. I can see how it's insulting, so, sorry.

Funny you should mention watches (I don't think I have?) a friend at work has a 4 grand TAG and just bought his wife a 3k Rolex (whilst on a trip to Dubai no less), but was saying it's impossible to get a deposit together... you're fucking wearing half of it.

Insightful as heck. You should write a book. Or run for parliament. Or something.

At the very least join the Money Saving Expert forum.

Well the beauty is that it's not complicated if you've already got your ducks in a row...

Interesting topic. I wish I had been more financially responsible while at uni and after graduating. Currently in a sell and save mode as we prepare to leave the country and becoming increasingly aware and quite angry at the levels of consumerism around me and the throw-away attitude the people around me have and the environmental impact this has.

Will no doubt embrace a new level of thrift once we're abroad. Will try and offset the impact of travelling as much as possible too.

Where you going?

New Zealand

Ooh, nice. I miss you already.

I checked I literally could not save 60% of my pre-tax salary even if I reduced my pension to the absolute minimum

It's all relative, I'm a relatively savvy consumer but I probably spend what some might consider ridiculous amounts. If I earned twice as much, I'd spend twice as much etc.

I'd sooner work much harder/smarter and make as much money as possible rather than just saving what I got paid.

I have no money and probably never will, I get beer occasionally though so nevermind.

So all other circumstances being equal (and I am aware they are often
not) maybe it's a 40% savings rate instead of 60%. But I've never
lived in London so maybe I'm talking out of my arse, I don't know.

No offence but yeah, you are. I'm a tightwad within reason, but I'd be fucking laughing if I could save 40%. Bananas. The article might not be showing any hard numbers, but you're just making them up.
I'm saving up for different reasons, great for me yay! But i really don't see what you're saying with this thread apart from telling us how good you are with money.

even if I reduced my pension to the absolute minimum

I count my contribution to my pension as saving.
The absolute minimum is zero as you can always opt out.

becoming increasingly aware and quite angry at the levels of consumerism around me and the throw-away attitude the people around me have and the environmental impact this has...
New Zealand

Ah you'll love it. It changed my outlook on life practically 180 degrees.
It's not an environmentally-friendly place though.

The article might not be showing any hard numbers, but you're just making them up.

No, I got the numbers from the Evening Standard and rightmove. What am I missing (genuine question)?

i really don't see what you're saying with this thread apart from telling us how good you are with money

To see who else is saving and why and how. I guess the first post wasn't my greatest moment.

Yup, I know that but still no way I could save 60% - my post tax pay is less than that