EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

But blacking up your face is a specific offensive act, in a way that wearing a pair of black jeans isn't. In that case I'd say the place to stop is the putting of black paint on your face.

I don't really know whether it's right or wrong for Morris dancers to do this because their tradition predates the offensive image, but I found the photo pretty jarring. I'm sure there are other examples.

arf

No, minstrelsy is a specifically offensive act: 'blacking up' in and of itself is not.

The photo jars because we jump to the conclusion that it's a piss-take - it lacks a recognisable context. Once we take on that new context are we not capable of shifting our view and accepting it for what it is?

Greenhell is really not going to like the coconutters then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl58rIDNdWA

(Possibly blacked up to avoid being recognised by evil spirits or to show the mining roots, no-one really seems to know)

minstrelsy

That's just being a minstrel. Perhaps you meant being a black & white minstrel.

[Edit] Although it appears it mainly refers to the blacked up kind of minstrel

Yeah, blacking up in a theatrical sense to portray the black man as some sort of buffoon. This is not what these Morris Dancers are doing - they are not passing themselves off as black characters.

Next up, the N word. Really so bad?

What I find interesting about this it that I think it must have worked as a disguise because the world used to be a lot, lot darker at night (when, presumably, people put on the disguise), without all that light pollution we now have. While people can always argue about tradition for tradition's sake, I suspect that this alone shows it's well and truly had its day.

What about when special forces soldiers black up their faces so as to not be seen when killing people. Is that unacceptable?

See above, Ross Kemp.

Covered.

i'm glad it ain't just me... this fucking place sometimes...

Inneresin. Mrs Hefty's family came here from Italy in 17-something. I may yet be safe.

Those cider guys aren't 'blacking up' in a racial sense. I haven't said for a moment that blacking up in a racial sense is on. I've said that the manner in which these people have made their faces black is very different to blacking up as we tend to know it. Therefore it cannot be thought about in the same way. I feel this is a fairly straightforward and logical observation to make. A little objectivity please...

I'm gonna have to stick my neck out here and join the defence of the Morris dancers. If somebody's non race related tradition involves doing something that could be misconstrued as racist then they shouldn't be forced to stop it over what is essentially a misunderstanding. This sort of thing is done very clearly in context. They don't pop down maccy D's on a Tuesday night like it and they don't shove it in the faces of black people to cause antagonism.

Edit: Morris dancers/other ancient traditions involving painting the face.

Also, we're in danger of getting a bit "white knight" here in assuming your average black person isn't capable of googling "why do Morris dancers wear blackface" before getting offended.

I wouldn't see this tradition as offensive. I'd say little contact between early Morris dancers (do we assume this tradition is going back to the 16th century as mentioned above) and people that were not of the same race as them could rule out the imitation / ridicule aspect. Also I'd say there was little power imbalance between rural folk dancers and people of colour in their environment.

Additionally its just the blackening of the face and not adding racial traits in the same way that the Dutch Christmas thing does.

Could it be the same idea as wearing a mask to a masquerade ball so you can get up to nefarious bait shit and no one can pick you out to the Montagues?

Has anybody mentioned that a slang for morris dancing from the early 19th century was "going niggering" due to the black face paint?

Sure, the morris dancers aren't blacking up for racist reasons but it sure adopted nasty connotations later on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ1mU3nD79c

Just because.

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I think they are Mummers rather than Morris men.

"guys... guys... you know the whole painting our faces black thing for our sweet gig down the pub next week... well i was thinking that maybe, just maybe we should not do that... you know considering what painting your face black has come to represent in these damnable modern times... just putting that out there..."

The roots of the tradition and what has happened since it started is pretty muddy.

Darkie Day

I also don't get the outrage, Black Pete though- yeah get rid of that.

First they came for the Morris dancers. Then they came for mummers. Then they came for kiss.

For the people who maintain these traditions they are very important.

Sounds a bit like you are applying a collective responsibility here- the fact that they smear their faces black (note how it isn't an even coverage, there is no accenting of features such as eyes or lips), lumps them in with the racists right?

This one?