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@user68413
Pretty sweeping statement, " Dutch frames are more reliable". I've never had any reliability issues with my many Italian frames. To my knowledge most Dutch frames used British or Italian steel anyway. What I do know is that Italian steel frames won far more Tour races, Giro,Vuelta than Dutch did. Some Dutch bikes are lovely, in Italy though, bikes are something beyond function and reliability. The very finest steel frames are Italian and combine build quality, aesthetics, ride quality and, of course, combined with Italian components....Speed