This morning's commute and other commuting stories

I'll have another look tomorrow. It's a longish road.

Roundabouts mini or major are perilous at the best of times. If nice motorists follow the rules and acknowledge my priority cycling into a mini one I always try to put up the "cheers mate" hand. Main thing is, stay safe Sharkstar & attempt to be cool :^)

I looked at the street view and it was this roundabout. I've attached a diagram showing our relative positions as I entered. As I said, I saw him a bit before the first position shown. Should I have waited, do you think, given where we were? My judgement about how safe it was to enter the junction was partly driven by the fact that there were two entry lanes on my side and clearly passing room on the roundabout itself. His judgement as to the danger of the manoeuvre was probably driven by the fact he had to pass me back into one lane of traffic at his exit.

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Sound advice. I ride 10 miles every day in London through rush hour traffic. I haven't had an argument with a motorist for years. I'm all for open communication with other road users and mutual respect. However, I've just started doing a few longer rides outside London and this happens. I guess I wondered what had made the difference. Non-London motorists? Riding a bit faster? Wearing lycra, helmet, shades? Different expectations of motorists?

Looks to me like he was freaked out by the pinch situation and vented at you on the basis of a 'I'm faster than you so you should have given way to the right even though you were there first' thing, which to be honest is quite a common expectation of tractors/trailers/other slower-moving traffic (not commenting if it's a correct expectation or not).

First commute after NL cycle tour: I miss the cycle lanes already.

But everybody was in a good mood this morning with all motorists letting me out and no aggro driving. And 22 deg today in Belfast, errr...?

so much semi-pro armchair traffic cop-ery.

#eyeroll

Gave a lady a nasty shock at E&C when she stepped out into the cycle path without so much as a glance - she was too busy rummaging in her handbag and checking her phone simultaneously. She didn't hear my bell, so I had to give her a pretty loud "HEY!" as I took action to slow down and change my path to miss her.

She did apologise as I went past, which I failed to acknowledge. People need to look where the fuck they're going, silly idiots.

Tuesday/10

My 2p

I'd take a junction like this assuming the driver hadn't seen me or will likely misjudge my entry speed (drivers often pull out before doing the rabbit in headlights impression, simply because they don't expect a bike to be ridden at the same speeds they are doing in their car).

Riding hard through a roundabout isn't a great idea either, even if you are fully in control, as it gives you much less reaction/stopping time if anything unexpected happens.

For those of us new to this country, could you pleae clarify the rules on mini-roundabouts? Roundabouts I understand priorities but didn't know that the rules differed here.

Saw a guy in Borough this morning dressed in full motocross body armour including full face helmet and goggles with a headmounted GoPro, two very bright front lights running, both his rear lights flashing and dressed in all black with a black backpack.

Please explain to me how, given all the other saftey features, it is a good idea to be dressed all in black if you were to be riding in the dark.

I looked at the street view and it was this roundabout. I've attached a diagram showing our relative positions as I entered. As I said, I saw him a bit before the first position shown. Should I have waited, do you think, given where we were? My judgement about how safe it was to enter the junction was partly driven by the fact that there were two entry lanes on my side and clearly passing room on the roundabout itself. His judgement as to the danger of the manoeuvre was probably driven by the fact he had to pass me back into one lane of traffic at his exit.

From your description, you were not at fault, and at any rate didn't think it was a particularly dangerous situation. Did you mean to draw the driver's position in the wrong entry lane for the manoeuvre he was about to attempt or was he in the correct (offside) lane?

I imagine that I would have waited a moment for the driver to pass if I'd seen them, even if they were in the wrong, but it's easy to say that without having been surprised by the situation.

Asymmetry in the number of entry and exit lanes is another common problem with roundabouts, but here the assumption is that the offside lane will be used only by right-turners, so that only one exit lane is needed. (It obviously doesn't always happen like that in practice.) This is the case at very many junctions. As I said earlier, the driver should have followed you (rather than using the wider space on that side to manoeuvre himself into a conflict situation).

Anyway, such innocuous incidents tell you quite a lot about junction design. Here I wonder if there are often long queues there for drivers exiting Victoria Road, and if that may have influenced his behaviour. People are sometimes terrified of having to wait.

For those of us new to this country, could you pleae clarify the rules on mini-roundabouts? Roundabouts I understand priorities but didn't know that the rules differed here.

The theory is that they're essentially the same as rules for roundabouts, rules 184-190, with 188-190 for mini-roundabouts:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

As I said, in practice it doesn't quite work like that.

More information and background in this document:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3899/mini-roundabouts-report.pdf

I pass him on the wandsworth road some mornings, he pays no attention to the seasonal variation in temperature..

I assume he rides with fear in his heart...

From your description, you were not at fault, and at any rate didn't think it was a particularly dangerous situation.

How do you come to that conclusion given that he apparently describes failing to give way to a vehicle coming from the right at a roundabout?

[disagrees with Oliver, cancels obligations for the rest of the day]

At best and using the limited information I would have recorded any collision as 50/50. Just because you can squeak in front of another vehicle doesn't mean you have priority. I agree with the general principle of giving priority to the more vulnerable road user however.

To play devil's advocate, @Sharkstar, if you got so close to colliding how could you be sure you were ok to proceed before entering the roundabout? Assuming a fair margin of error that is...

Enjoyable commute in, loving the alfine a little bit more every time I use it, despite the quite regular jump in gearing, probably only using 3 of the 8 gears, but it's lovely to coast into some lights, change gear and smoothly pedal away.. also despite the weight, starting to fall for the 35's that are on there, quite a difference jumping from road bike on 23's to these, like riding on a comfy squishy cushion of air..

Also this Spanish plume, keep on, keeping on...

your a Spanish plume.

To be fair to the motorist, he would have had a good line of sight of the roundabout and approaching traffic from the south. He still should have slowed to cater for traffic entering the roundabout from his left (Sharkstar) to avoid rear-ending someone...

#semiproarmchairtrafficcop

Ah, I've only just spotted an unusual complication here, which is that on the approach that Nigel used there are give-way markings, whereas the other two entries to the roundabout don't have give-way markings. Apologies, I didn't notice that earlier. I expect that it is because this kind of conflict has been experienced there before and engineers decided to add the give-way markings.

So, Nigel should have give way to the driver there, and he was at fault, but not because he has to give way to vehicles approaching from the right at a roundabout, but because of the give-way markings (which basically represent a failure of the roundabout design here). You are not obliged to give way to a vehicle coming from the right at a roundabout, but to a vehicle already in the circulatory carriageway, which obviously will be approaching from your right. This is one of the most frequently misunderstood things about roundabouts (the Highway Code's advice is simplified and doesn't explain this properly).

1.3 Roundabouts are junctions with a one-way circulatory carriageway around a central island. Vehicles on the circulatory carriageway have priority over those approaching the roundabout.

http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/dmrb/vol6/section2/td1607.pdf

Wins disagreement with Oliver in a single post. Have that, internets.

This is a day to circle on the calendar. You should go out tonight and celebrate.

At best and using the limited information I would have recorded any collision as 50/50. Just because you can squeak in front of another vehicle doesn't mean you have priority. I agree with the general principle of giving priority to the more vulnerable road user however.

He sure didn't appear to ride with fear. Was continually weaving through riders/vehicles all the way into London Bridge.

Can't unfortunately, it's Norths tonight.

Wins disagreement with Oliver in a single post. Have that, internets.

Sort of. You would have done if you had pointed out the give-way lines at the northern entrance. :) You certainly made me look at it again.

This is, by the way, a confusing situation with the design. The full give-way markings are most likely an attempt to deal with the problem here that traffic from Balcombe Road north and Victoria Road gets into conflict quite a lot, probably because of the poor sightlines and the geometry of the junction. It's not a junction with a lot of collisions, in fact there have only been four over the last ten years, but perhaps there were more before those were added.

The normal roundabout give-way markings basically say that drivers or riders arriving at the markings should yield to traffic in the circulatory carriageway. Ordinary give-way markings with double lines are designed to govern priority at priority junctions where there is no separate road (the circulatory carriageway) inscribed in the junction. To paint them at the entrance to a roundabout is therefore odd. That's obviously the case at a lot of large roundabouts in particular, and at many with non-standard geometry and issues with the surrounding network that mean traffic doesn't flow through a junction as the theory of roundabout design would have it.