EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

How do you know that music is only exposed to an elite?

I'm not going to get on a high horse, but if you want a nation of creative, confident people, and our political 'leaders' claim this is fundamental for our future economic prosperity, then exposing children to music and getting them involved in producing that music is one of the best ways we have. It's certainly better than anything Michael fucking Gove came up with in his time as Education Secretary.

i am certainly not from the elite, our daughter is grade 5 piano and violin and sings in the London and National Youth Choirs.. to be part of this musical environment as parents we need to be resourceful, have abit of income for tution and membership fees, and few hours spare to expose her to a world without prejudice, where the only boundaries should be based on talent. Whenever I visit a choir or symphony practice i feel inspired. Of course there may be a level of snobbery which we do not associate with, and let's face it musicians are the worse paid in society, does not mean we should discriminate against those who want to enrich their lives and share experiences.. whether it means being part of an orchestra or a small ensemble, is to a child and parent a wonderful achievement, at national or school level. If said institutions have any financial backers, then it's usually from the privileged few for the benefit of all.

In

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1 salmon

Sorry to hear that :(

Sore feeling...

I can't play music or sing. Those plastic recorders at school didn't help :P
But I draw and see the value of arts. Not all skills can be translated in direct £££

Playing devil's advocate: Surely brexit is also good because we have been "given back control"?

(runs very fast)

my partner is not from the UK.. seriously thinking its time to leave this country, before it becomes another switzerland, looking for norwegian trade deal with EU..

There are far worse possibilities than that.

'Surely those remaining can just play a bit louder' suggests a brextard.

I wrote (emailed) my MP earlier this morning and just received a response from him, thought it might be of interest;

Dear all,
Can I thank hundreds of you together for your comments about the referendum and related issues. I hope you will forgive me for trying to answer you all together. Very few, if any of you, raised all the points covered below, but most of you raised more than one issue so I hope this is helpful – even if a bit impersonal, for which I am sorry.
1 Don’t leave the EU
I have had many emails from constituents who’ve signed a petition calling for a second referendum: some of whom have also asked me not to recognise the result of the referendum.
However much any of us regret the result, we are all (and MPs especially) servants of democracy: the country has voted and we must implement the collective view as best we can: exploring all aspects of ‘getting back control’ while retaining, where possible, key parts of the current relationship, like free trade.
We lost the debate and have to recognise that, and all do our best to learn the lessons and implement the decision as best possible. So we must find the opportunities and manage the risks: it will all take time, and will need patience.
2 David Cameron
Some of you have blamed the Prime Minister for the referendum, or asked that he shouldn’t resign. I understand the feelings involved. I also think that he was the best Prime Minister that we could have, and I knew instinctively that he would resign: David Cameron is a decent man who has done what he believes is the decent thing for 11 years as Party Leader. He will stay to see through a leadership election (I imagine) in September, before the Party Conference.
3 The Future of the United Kingdom
There are no facts about the future: only different ideas, and it’s down to individual judgement regarding whose view will prove right. There are discussions very soon on the Northern Ireland border with Stormont leaders and the Irish PM. My belief is that they will resist formal border crossings and passport checks, at least for now, and that this important relationship in the EU will be relatively unscathed.
I don’t believe Nicola Sturgeon wants to hold a referendum unless she is sure to win. My judgement is that isn’t the case at the moment, but she will have to decide: and the Westminster government would need to agree to any further referendum. In any event she and other administrations will have a role in the Brexit discussions and options.
4 What happens next
The Conservative leadership election to replace David Cameron as Leader and Prime Minister starts this week and will likely finish in September. The new government will then decide when to trigger Article 50. Once triggered, negotiators will be sent to the EU to discuss an exit deal. This must be agreed by a majority of the EU member states (not including the UK) and the process has a two year deadline. After which I believe there will be an approval process for the replacement of the 1972 European Communities Act in Parliament.
There is unlikely to be a General Election, in my view, given the fixed Term of Parliament Act that commits us to an election in 2020. I cannot see that being repealed in normal circumstances.
Whatever happens, there is plenty to be done in Gloucester including many projects here not reliant on the EU, from the new Health University Technical College that we are applying for, to physical regeneration, more culture and more housing. This will go on, and the government will continue to govern while we negotiate what happens next with the EU.
5 Thank you
Thank you for many emails in the past week, after the tragic death of Jo Cox MP. Nothing I do, or the way I do it, will change in any way.
6 Summary
I voted to remain, but Gloucester and the country voted to leave. I respect this decision and will work to get the best deal possible for us and our country.
Above all let us focus, as Jo Cox said, on what we have in common - which is far more than what divides us - and differ with politeness, and unite where we can. I hope that we can all pull together again as soon as possible.
Best regards
Richard

Interesting, seems to echo the general consensus among MPs - that despite being the result they didn't vote or hope for, they won't be opposing it.

sorry to disagree with you butternut squash, at school we have jazz bands, steel bands, church choirs, rock bands, gospel choirs too.. the fact that we encourage our daughter to go further, doesn't mean we want her to become perfect or professional. but we do want her to express herself through music.. that's the point, and with the right level of tuition the music stays with her for life like a companion, if she ever gets to play at a big venue like the royal albert hall, then its about those life experiences we celebrate. she has played and sung at guildhall, it's never lost on me that most of the hall is filled with decent working class people, therefore i see these venues are for us. we've heard the salvation army and countless other voluntary groups perform there too, so the exposure is not lost on our girl.

the cost of the guildhall was funded by Heron Group, part of the redevelopment with private residential apartments above. it was a huge pay cheque for the guidhall previouly with meagre facilities in the barbican. from there CYM and others have branched out into the communities like Lambeth where the less privileged have access to music and the arts.. i don't know the full implications from Brexit, but I want the next generation to feel included not excluded from these environments.

But what begat the music of the sixties and seventies? This is a slightly reductionist view.

"There are no facts about the future: only different ideas, and it’s down to individual judgement regarding whose view will prove right. "

Hang on:

"There are no facts about the future: only different ideas: That changing lane without indicating in pissing down rain with no lights on in the dark giving a gnat cock width hair room in front of the other car is a bad idea, no, it's only a different idea, and it's down to individual judgement who will be proven to be right".

But fair play e-mailing your MP :)

My MLA was remain so what can he say... I could e-mail Arlene Foster but she's got a plank in front of her head anyway. NI voted remain, and she gives zero mention of that.

Are you on crack?

My view is somewhat tainted by a sincerely held belief that there is practically no music worth listening to made or written pre 1972/73, and literally none from before 1966/67.

Yeah I prefer Cliff Richard's later work too.

suggest you go to CYM - Morley College one Saturday morning, you'll hear most musical genres being played by young musicians aged 14-19 before this centre closes down..

then in a few years activities for kids during the school holidays will be reduced to hanging around shopping malls, parks, or the internet etc. until parents return from work..

i hate music. ruined my life.

Your music ruined a lot of people's lives.

it has actually deported an innocent individual to australia

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I genuinely feel sorry for you if that is your sincerely held belief, you have either no soul, or spent no effort to listen to anything not played on Radio 1. You come across as the child that will only eat fishfingers, chips and crisps.

My view is somewhat tainted by a sincerely held belief that there is practically no music worth listening to made or written pre 1972/73, and literally none from before 1966/67.

Know that somewhere in London, a man with a quiff is putting his fighting trousers on.

Sarah Vine's leaked email. Oh my days.

And these are the people we are meant to entrust with negotiating a new relationship with the EU.

it is cringeworthy. tho not nearly as upsetting as the thought that someone married and has had sexual intercourse with michael 'the lip' gove.