EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

The same people busy fucking us over and moving offshore. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Although I do think that a referendum is one of the few fundamentally democratic process around / possible with large populations.

I'm not sure that I agree. It is a democratic process, no doubt, but no more so than PR, FPTP, or any other democratic process and / or system.

My point is that democracy can be defined so as to fit your own argument, and held to be an end in itself, rendering that argument somewhat unsubstantive.

Just looked at his wikipedia page. If there was anyone to disprove Farage's "you've never worked a real job" it's Vytenis Andriukaitis. He's actually got the skills that might save stupid Farage's life when he has a coronary due to too many pints and smokes.

Nah, fags and pints are good for you. Doctors got it wrong.

Tru dat, experts don't know anything, it's the new order.

That's the next thing to say to your garage: You experts don't know anything!

Hasn't Adam Curtis done a doc on this "post-truth" blinder?

hooliganism

I see that you have met Mr Farage's particular brand of politics then...

The (relative) strength does come from the fact that they do not have to press the button, but also simply by dint of having more time available.

I'm not so convinced that is entirely derived from the stick of market uncertainty - Uncertainty over the timing of Article 50, and the implied volatility will soon be priced in to capital and currency, and a new equilibrium will be reached over time.

The relationship between the EU and the UK maintains the current status quo, albeit with the UK being more parasitic in nature.

Stark future for Guildhall School of Music and Drama, example
symphony orchestra with EU students..

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without EU students.. :(

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The wall.

Is that their organ?

If so, damn... I want to listen to Bach in there!

Bach?

you'll get vaughn williams and you'll LIKE it.

Dave,
this is the main hall.. acoustically superior, alas no organ though

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My other half, who works at one of the Guildhall's fellow conservatoires, thinks her institution will fold if we actually leave the EU, as there's no way the government will replace the lost funding.

I heard the young musicians symphony orchestra play this a couple of weeks ago at St John Smith Hall, it was fricking awesome,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2wNAWBPFiI

just prior to the referendum, there was a debate about where we get our young talent from, well alot of those parents from the EU living here bring their children to learn and perform for us..

Who is Dave?

Have you not met Dave?

Dishface? Not had the displeasure yet. I'm glad.

one of the reasons those parents came, was because culturally want to create a pool of great performers, i've seen / heard kids from poland, spain, slovenia perform and living here, our daughter loves being part of CYM at Morley College and the concerts are great value of money, in a world where the arts lacking funding, there was a time the arts were funded by the lottery, i hate to say it but we have blunted those rich pools of talent, that make Guildhall an incredible institution :(

thanks Dave, i guess i won't be seeing you at any of the school concert's either..

A motivation for some leave voters was to spite the 'liberal elite' and drag everything to their level. They will no doubt celebrate the closure of cultural institutions in the capital.

Arts and science are also fucked.

I see your point.

I guess my response would be that yes democracy is a loose term capable of multiple definitions. However, imo the core immovable constituent is the representation of the opinions of the people with the Ancient Greek model of direct representation being the purest.

My original thinking was that with large populations a referendum is the closest to direct representation you can get.

But it is the responsibility of those setting the referendum to ensure it is an informed debate, free from bias. Given we know this is impossible, truly democratic states, forced into referenda, apply threshholds to prevent apathy being the ally of the single vote victory.

I have to say that of all the amazing reasons to stay in the EU, the preservation of institutions who use taxpayers money to provide music - that an elite has decided has massive cultural value - to same said elite, is the absolute worst of the lot

How do you know that music is only exposed to an elite?

I'm not going to get on a high horse, but if you want a nation of creative, confident people, and our political 'leaders' claim this is fundamental for our future economic prosperity, then exposing children to music and getting them involved in producing that music is one of the best ways we have. It's certainly better than anything Michael fucking Gove came up with in his time as Education Secretary.