EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

This may be the first, last, and only time Cameron's actions will be referred to as saintly - even if comparatively.

He has single-handily thrown the UK (and European, and possible world) economy into spasms. He has likely ensured the end of the union. He has allowed for a political climate in which one person has been murdered, and now normal people are being harassed (and hopefully not worse) on the street.

Ask yourself - why did he ever agree to a referendum that no one, other than Ukip, wanted?

He did it to win votes when 66% of voters didn't vote for him and his pals, didn't he?

Question time special on BBC 1 now.

..tuned in - thanks

Bodge Job

The audience isn't really making me want to reconcile with any Leavers.

How dare Scotland consider leaving the Union, as we leave the EU!

Salmond is killing it (from my biased perspective). The "Well she does" with the shrug. Amazing.

I disagree with Corbyn on Trident, on Syria and I would have liked him to demand stronger reforms from Europe. I disagreed with Miliband on a lot more – but I respected him as a politician of principle and the elected leader.

In your minds I suspect some of you crave the emergence of a less slick, more plebeian Blair: somebody to fight populism with populism. The referendum was won by clowns: Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. If we in Labour want to summon up our own populist clown let’s think hard before doing so. We need a careful process of analysis and rebuilding, based on evidence not hysteria.

These are good points well made. The shadow cabinet don't seem to agree, though. Obviously I dont want a populist clown. I want someone who can maintain the respect of his own cabinet, has some experience of running an organisation rather than a protest group, and can summon real support from beyond his own small political faction. Compared to the electorate, the membership that elected him is tiny.

About half the shadow cabinet has just resigned. I wish it had happened sooner, and I really hope we get a serious leader this time.

Salmond is killing it (from my biased perspective). The "Well she does" with the shrug. Amazing.

Agreed

About half the shadow cabinet has just resigned. I wish it had happened sooner, and I really hope we get a serious leader this time.

Such as?

It responded to all who predicted the chaos now engulfing us like an unscrupulous pundit who knows that his living depends on shutting up the experts who gainsay him. For why put the pundit on air, why pay him a penny, if experts can show that everything he says is windy nonsense? The worst journalists, editors and broadcasters know their audiences want entertainment, not expertise. If you doubt me, ask when you last saw panellists on Question Time who knew what they were talking about.

this event is doing the fb rounds,
https://www.facebook.com/events/1671704409745795/

Tuesday, Trafalgar Square.

I quite like Mary Creagh, she was new in 2010, and as such doesn't carry too much baggage from the Blair era. Also, not privately educated, has experience working in Brussels. I also think a woman would be good in a parliament that is still dominated by old, male voices.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Creagh

I haven't spent 40 years opposing racism to be told by racists that I
'need to reconcile with them'.
(To borrow from b+d 'Not all Leavers are racists, but all racists are leavers'.

I also like Angela Eagle, partly for her brilliant performance against Cameron when she took PM questions. Though she does have baggage from the Brown administration, she might be a better unity candidate having also served under Corbyn without getting sacked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Eagle

Low profile except some expert opinion on the horse meat scandal.

Yeah, so on the racist thing: Somebody on my Facebook who works in an anti-racism group says it's much better to go for the racist IDEAS rather than label a whole person a racist.

I've no idea how that fixes "jumping to conclusions" as in "there are no schoolplaces and this USA friend agrees cos they get all these illegal immigrations" which leaving the EU won't fix... but hey.

Thing is, if you mention someone with a high profile in the Labour party you tend to get cries of "Blairite"

What will a coup from within the party elite do for the activist base?

Do you think the Daily Mail is being sincere in their love of the Labour party when they call for the PLP to "kill vampire Corbyn" if they want to save the party? If not, why do you think they're doing it?

What may be the repercussions for many of the people within the PLP in a couple of weeks when the Chilcot Report is released?

I think that's because they're usually Balirites. It's a bit like when you see a fire and yell "Fire!"

^^The Hague?

My feeling on where this will end up is exit of the EU, but free movement of people and a contribution to the EU budget. The benefits of 'UK sovereignty' will mean the repeal of EU directives that protect consumer, environmental and workers' rights. So immigrants will be able to come here, but neither they nor their British counterparts will have any protections. Win-win for multinationals and international capital. Lose-lose for the rest of us. The people being screwed will be kept on side by generating grievance against minority groups (racism, homophobia, misogyny). This is Gove, Johnson, Hannan and Farage's game plan. What is the strategy to stop it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/racist-incidents-feared-to-be-linked-to-brexit-result-reported-in-england-and-wales

Pfff. So far so good in Belfast, but coming from a low base...racism here has been getting a lot of media attention and fightbacks.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/05/05/news/racism-the-new-sectarianism-in-northern-ireland-according-to-former-belfast-pastor-509505/