EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

How many times? Not all leave voters are racist, but all racists voted leave.

What are you on about? The left are responsible for Brexit because they called Leavers xenophobic?

Well, that was worth joining the forum for wasn't it?

So tweets in response to Sturgeon's position on potential veto are fucking awful. One person asking if she has a death wish, another saying she should be shot, another calling her a traitor who should be sent to the Tower of London. That's from a sample of about 20.

What would be great, now, would be that some of the millions of definitely not racist Leave voters oppose the emboldened voices of the racists, xenophobes and far right that are coming out loud and proud on our streets and workplaces. I see it as the big fight now, and it's a fight for everyone, but I mean that instead of defending yourselves/themselves as "I'm not racist" individuals, to make sure that the far right fuckers don't take your voice, don't claim your vote as a vote for them. I mean not just saying "I'm not racist, you don't get it, stop calling me racist", but saying "and I will not stand by" and not standing by. Saying "all this racist shit, this is not in my name, this is not on.", otherwise y'know it kind of looks like you don't care all that much.

Yeah I'm an optimist. But it's a fight we need to win.

There has been a bit of "No you can't criticise Islam for murdering others (Glasgow shopkeeper) or being anti lgbt rights, or being less secular according to polls that's Islamophobia!" in the left. Hope not hates list putting Ayaan Hirsi ali with people calling for violence in one bucket was a fine low.

Of course right wing groups don't call out Christianity doing the same thing. And of course they ignore it's not just Islam but also local country culture.

But if someone is concerned about those things and genuinely isn't being a racist, just asks a question they may quickly get a label.

But brexit xenophobia was perhaps more a vague blaming and "themmuns" over genuine facts / concerns and word meaning shifting. Unless I have missed genuine solutions rather than "oh we stop immigration now, all is well, cuppa t".

This.

All the people I spoke to at work yesterday who voted leave were adamant they weren't xenophobic but just feel the EU juggernaut is broken and want an alternative, whatever that is. I told them it's a pretty bad punt for marginal gains but potential huge losses.

I think there are phone calls being made behind the scenes between UK and euro leaders and they'll create a two tier euro zone and we'll vote to stay in with new controls.

It'll take a long time for the bad taste to go but I'm cautiously optimistic that this will fix itself somehow but it's going to get worse before it gets better.

I try not to talk politics with my dad so I won't be asking him how he voted when I see him next week, but that list gives a pretty strong indication. I can never get my head around the things I see as conflicting that he has no issue with:

• Believes in that "multiculturalism was a New Labour project, it's political correctness gone mad, it's artificial to force people to live together" shit. Is a pretty well-integrated non-white non-Christian immigrant.
  
• Thinks feminism is bullshit and unnecessary. Has 3 daughters.
  
• Soaks up all the Sky News chat and tabloid opinions with little question. Is an academic.
  
• Thinks immigration and free movement of people is bad. Not only is he an immigrant, also none of his family (I mean most of them have died now, but when they were alive) stayed in his country of birth.
  
  

At least he likes the internet.

Some complex character traits. I bet Christmas is a blast.

Thinks immigration and free movement of people is bad. Not only is he an immigrant, also none of his family (I mean most of them have died now, but when they were alive) stayed in his country of birth.

Like those drivers who get stuck in traffic

THERE IS A PROBLEM IT'S JUST NOT ME

I'm not even sure what logical fallacies apply, special pleading, no true immigrant... :)

We all are inconsistent in some parts, but sometimes you wonder.

Just got back from Sainsbury's, a foreign couple in front of me. The cashier asks if he can help to pack their bags

Fuck me, let the dust settle a bit first mate

that yours? excellent

Can someone start a campaign of love on the streets where we feel empowered to tell random European and other immigrants that we love them, we stand by them, we're sorry for the racist minority and they are welcome here? Have had the urge to do this all weekend with the many immigrants I have encountered but haven't plucked up the courage.

It's time for you to get plucky and just do it.

Concur. There'll be protracted negotiations, some sort of compromise to save face on both sides, the whole thing will drag on and get very complicated, everyone will have a good moan about it, and then we'll all go back to constantly texting each other, watching Game of Thrones and the like, shopping, drinking, and riding bikes.

People are organizing different events it seems, but I saw something on Tuesday which may fit the "We Love Europeans!" bill. I may drop by after work as it's just around the corner from my office. I'll see if I can find the deets that popped up on FB at some point.

This: https://www.facebook.com/events/1671704409745795/

Description:

London Stays is our mark of showing that, regardless of the EU Referendum result, we stand alongside the people of Europe to show we are inclusive, open and patient to understanding how we can make the Leave decision into a positive one for all. We stay with Europe!

If you’re outside of London we’d love for you to join us in your own towns and cities – here’s to
‘Manchester Stays’, ‘Fort William Stays’, ‘Berlin Stays, and further afield.

This will be a celebration of London, UK and Europe, so feel free to bring:

• A flag of your country
  
• National dress
  
• Banners and signs
  
• Music
  
• Games
  
• Anything else that promotes connectedness
  
  
  

Moving forward, we want to come together to understand and educate ourselves on how the Leave decision can create a positive environment for all people – regardless of age, gender, race, demographic, location, and their Leave or Remain vote.

There has been an incredible interest in this event, and to follow our ethos of not dictating what people should do or think, we’ve been inspired by Burning events to include our principles:

1. Participation: This is an event for all, and so all are welcome.
   
2. Positivity: We promote positivity around the referendum, not wishing to blame, and always with the mindset of wanting to find creative ways of looking to the future. We do not base prejudice based a person’s decision to vote.
   
3. Leave no trace: We want to commit to leaving no physical trace of our presence after we gather – and so clean up after ourselves.
   
4. Education: To use the gathering of people to educate ourselves on the policies, and engaging in healthy debate
   

this fucking country

Not sure where from but this is doing the rounds. Relates to ^^

1 Attachment

Which (Tory MP) Brexiteers have clearly stated that they are willing to press the button, and when have they indicated they would do it?

They won't yet, because, and you won't be suprised to hear this, the Leave campaign don't actually have a plan for post-brexit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNe-yHr7uJc

That's good. I might try and visit that.

Also, feel bumper stickers that say i love Europeans are required. Short of any other symbolism we dressed our baby boy in rainbow clothes, which is appropriate to coincide for pride.

Time for people to start speaking up for and defending their liberal progressive principles.

I'm sure Boris still wants to be PM, and his plan will be for EEA membership. I'm sure he working on his next moves now.

May wants to be leader. No idea if she wants it bad enough to take on negotiations.

IDS says he doesn't, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Gove does, but I can't imagine anyone agreeing to it.

Boris telling everyone his plan in February (two referendums) was a bit silly, because it seems the EU leaders planned a response to stare him down.

Angela Merkel's statements today give me a glimmer of hope. How I wish we had a political leader of that quality.