EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Wrong comment,
lost track of the thread.

No idea. It was off a share of a share on fb.

One thing I'm quite uncomfortable with is signing a petition because I don't agree with the result of the referendum. People have voted, we don't just keep having referendums until the other half get the right answer. What then? Another petition?

I'll happily sign a petition calling for the Leave campaign to keep their promises. We should be holding Johnson, Farage, Gove and the rest of them to account and trying to get the best Brexit deal we can.

Oh and BBC have just said HSBC are moving 1000 jobs to Paris. thumbs up Brexiters.

It is reasonable to complain about immigrants depressing wages, occupying much-needing housing, using massively stretched public services and choosing not to integrate. Housing building inevitably impact green belt as well as brown-field. Roads and rail are creaking. If you can't control your borders you can't ccontrol any of these things.

As pretty well pointed out here, can we really not cope with the additional 0.5% population rise that immigration causes each year? If not, doesn't that show a pretty deep failure of government

(8) Farage does talk a lot of sense.

Nah fam.

@Hefty is a fella.

Not exactly sense, but you have to admit that he's not afraid to say what vast swathes of the population are saying in the comfort of their own heads.
Unfortunately, the answer to "Are you thinking what we're thinking?" is often yes.

An interesting take from the Financial Times.
Now that Cameron has popped smoke, they might never actually pull the pin on Article 50. No matter how much they might want us to, the remainder of the EU cannot force us to invoke it, as the notification has to come from the government of the specific country (as I understand it, please prove me wrong if I'm mistaken).
All the people in the running to be the new tory leader are frantically weighing up the odds. Is it worse, politically, to be the person who negotiated Britain out of the EU, or to be the person responsible for the breakup of the UK and the facilitator of an independent Scotland?
The thought of going down in history as the Prime Minister who lost Scotland might mean that the article 50 question just sort of hangs in limbo, and the nightmare scenario is that we remain in an EU which hates us for fucking them about, but can't actually get rid of us before someone from our government volunteers to eat the massive shit sandwich which this could well turn into.

Could this mean that Corbyn is finally hailed as electable by the right wing media, if he promises to invoke article 50?

I don't think the FT actually used the term "shit sandwich" though.

Vs one from the bbc:

The European Council - representing the 27 other member states - could trigger the negotiating process as soon as the prime minister discusses Brexit with other EU leaders.
Paragraph two of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty says that "a Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention".
Once this happens, the leaving state has up to two years to negotiate a withdrawal agreement.
The treaty does not say how this process of notification should happen.
It has always been assumed that this would come in the form of a letter from the prime minister to Donald Tusk, the European Council president, and the timing would be in the hands of the British government.
And a European Council spokesman reiterated on Saturday that triggering Article 50 was a formal act which must be "done by the British government to the European Council".
"It has to be done in an unequivocal manner with the explicit intent to trigger Article 50," a spokesman said.
But Professor Wyatt, who has represented clients in hundreds of cases before the European courts, said that EU lawyers might consider any discussion about Brexit between Mr Cameron and Mr Tusk and other EU leaders as effectively notifying the European Council of the UK's intention to leave.

I might respect their opinion more if they did though.

The Scotland issue, bearing in mind over 1 million of them also voted leave.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/a-second-scottish-referendum-is-not-inevitable/

(3) That said the misguided do acknowledge in their vote something that remain votes don't acknowledge. It is reasonable to complain about immigrants depressing wages, occupying much-needing housing, using massively stretched public services and choosing not to integrate. Housing building inevitably impact green belt as well as brown-field. Roads and rail are creaking. If you can't control your borders you can't control any of these things.

Only if you don't have a minimum wage that people can live on and is a minimum wage that is enforced. Wage deflation has an impact when workers rights are precarious. Successive governments since Thatcher have allowed this to happen. Immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for politicians.

Housing only becomes an issue when successive governments fail to maintain investment, sell off stock and fail to replace those lost. Again, successive governments since Thatcher have allowed this to happen. Ignoring council housing, even 'affordable' housing provision has been woefully lacking, again successive governments have allowed this to happen.

(12) But many young people don't mind flexibility in the workplace; see themselves as entrepreneurs...

Well there are +800k people on zero hours contracts. I'm guessing they don't all see themselves as the next Richard Branson and that most would prefer stable employment so they can work enough hours to pay their rent / tuition fees / bills etc.

One thing I'm quite uncomfortable with is signing a petition because I don't agree with the result of the referendum.

I would normally agree with this sentiment - after the referendum on AV people accepted it and moved on without any fuss. This feels different to me, the vote to leave was massively influenced by a campaign spewing out misinformation and outright lies and that doesn't sit right.

It may well come to nothing but it's a means to keep the debate alive for those that can't resign themselves to the decision to leave just yet, especially when that decision looks like an even bigger fuck up than expected with every passing moment.

Since the referendum polls closed, statistically, 1800 people who voted to leave have already died of old age.

That said the misguided do acknowledge in their vote something that remain votes don't acknowledge.

It is reasonable to complain about immigrants depressing wages, occupying much-needing housing, using massively stretched public services and choosing not to integrate.

Yes, it is reasonable. But the brexit camp has no solutions.

Integration? They cut funds for community projects AND let faith schools run riot.

Depressing wages? They cut education. It's a side effect of global markets in some jobs. You know that. They do nothing to mitigate.

There's room in Norn IRE...poor parts of England. But no investment.

Housing building inevitably impact green belt as well as brown-field. Roads and rail are creaking.

Cutting vat on doing up houses and confiscating empty properties : All possible. But they're mates with landlords

If you can't control your borders you can't ccontrol any of these things.

You can't control these things. You can invest and plan. But hey...

These problems are real. But brexit just uses them for point scoring.

'One thing I'm quite uncomfortable with is signing a petition because I don't agree with the result of the referendum.'
The petty, divisive anti-EU whingers have been bleating for 40 years.
Don't give up after just 40 hours.

Well we cannot let the House of Commons shut up shop on the 21st July and fuck off,
hoping we all forget about the Brexit vote until they are scheduled to return on the 5th of September, then do nothing but elect a new Tory leader ready for their Conference.
Tories to be given a month to find a new leader.
Then Parliament to vote on Article 50, when sense can prevail,
and the Tory proto-kippers can be returned to their box,
as the referendum has no constitutional strength.
If this finishes the careers of Gove, dePfeiffel, so be it.
An internal Tory party squabble, even one that has been simmering for 40 years
cannot be allowed to wreck the Country.

Can the Continuity Blairites of the Parliamentary Labour Party follow the script that Labour delivered 62% Remain?
Can they fuck:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/labour-leadership-jeremy-corbyn-must-go

But it must have been worth Taking Back Control... if it only was for a couple of hours

View from Wales: town showered with EU cash votes to leave EU:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale

Source, please! I so want to be able to quote and scale this :-p