EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

I enjoyed/appreciated your earlier posts. I also appreciated your apparent self awareness, and a moment of self deprecation. But it's getting repetitive. This "I'm telling you what to do". You say "you're perfectly entitled to vent" but it's more than that. It's actually good. People should vent and rage and express their anger and frustration, it's important and necessary if we're to 'get over it' and move on to the next more constructive more positive stage. You are not allowing it by telling angry people to have a quiet cup of tea. Don't you understand that this is antagonistic?

Seriously. Allow it.

The people who voted leave think you're a cunt, try to change that, not perpetuate it.>

This too. A group of Sheffield leave voters on the radio just now, traditional labour stronghold: "The people haven't walked away from the Labour party, the Labour party has walked away from the people". Sadly sums it up.

"I'm beyond the analysis stage. Once you are too, please consider this and if you're a decision maker or influencer in Labour, the unions, the SNP, Plaid or Greens, please support. It's a plan, it makes sense and it can win. ProgrExit!"

I am confused I think wires are crossed

Sitting down with a cup of tea won't stop people having to leave the UK to follow their jobs. It won't help the current crop of university students facing a cut to grad schemes in London when companies stop hiring in London as they migrate further jobs abroad.

So enjoy your cup of tea, some people on here will face severe consequences which a sympathetic shoulder from some smug cunt will not cure.

Article 50 wasn't served- will it ever be?

Generally, parties are too divided to get into bed with each other. If the threat of the extreme right is genuine then maybe they would hold hands. All eyes are on Labour I think, they hold more cards than they know what to do with, hopefully they can make a great substitution and pull a winning play out the bag to unite. I think that the majority of people want to be in a reformed EU, there were lots of remainers, but also many 'in' and 'out' with reservations. Hopefully they can pick up on that.

Don't panic, Polly Toynbee has an opinion...

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Well for one thing I missed the "not" that came prior to "telling you what to do"... I agree with most of your ideas, I agree that we need to make an opportunity from this and not let the country burn. But maybe come back in a couple of days. Allow people their anger, it is good to express it. You see what happens when it goes unexpressed and unheard.

Nothing has happened yet, just wait. I am sorry, reflection works for me and it helps at times like this but I will defend myself as not being smug. I graduate in a few weeks and a lot is stacked against me too so I know it is tough

gotcha, I'll go find a cat to talk to and stroke for a bit.

The last time Labour actually did any good was the 1966-70 government

Just challenging this utterly ridiculous but oft asserted assertion because someone has to.

Yes Iraq was bad, but you're claiming that the Labour government that came in '97 did no good? That's absurd and ludicrous.

I remember growing up in the 80s and 90s under a Tory government. My local council had been capped and there was no money for anything: including schoolbooks, literally. Our secondary school had temporary classrooms which were basically sheds. That leaked.

Labour vastly improved public services - education, hospitals, leisure facilities. They built new schools, hospitals, swimming pools. They modernised infrastructure, shrunk class sizes, reduced waiting times in hospitals massively. They poured vast amounts of cash into the railways so that people wouldn't die just because they chose to commute to work by train. They did far far more than Harold Wilson ever did in those six years to improve people's lives and when Cameron became PM in 2010 the benchmark of living standards had been raised.

If you really think they did no good read the BBC's analysis of their education pledges:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk_politics/2002/blair_years/1959855.stm

Sure they weren't perfect - three unmet pledges (including the unworkable idea of getting BT to wire up education facilities and hospitals to the internet for free, but the premise was good and ahead of it's time - bizarre now to read it was controversial) but look at all the pledges they did meet.

(I agree with your wider point that Labour come out of this very badly - if they'd fought the campaign with any passion it would never have happened).

Labour will never do that. The parliamentary party is still primarily run by careerists only interested in their own advancement.

They couldn't even do a deal with the lib dems in 2010 to keep the Tories out because they felt they'd be going against tradition by forming a government without bring the largest party. Now look where it's got us.

Really wish voting reform with PR STV MMC setup was in the UK. FPP is a horrible system and undemocratic. Yes Farage and his ilk would have seats in England, but so would the Greens and other left parties, beyond the bloc of Labour. Actually representing the plurality of views of the electorate.

The Irish embassy in London has reported a massive jump in inquiries for passports, has run out of passport forms (more on the way from Dublin) and yesterday had queues of more than an hour in the ticketed waiting line for the service desk.

Nothing has happened yet? On Monday I will lose the job I love as a direct result of this. And that's not even what makes me most angry. The country has committed economic and cultural suicide. Everyone who voted leave is an idiot, a racist, or a racist idiot. If any one of them offers me tea and sympathy I will respond with violence.

By do that, I meant involve themselves in a coalition of ProgrExit. Fast moving thread.

Fuck Polly Toynbee, seriously. She's had the knife out for Corbyn since day one.

Paul Mason is a lovely man and I respect his decision to leave C4 so he can stand up for what he believes in without compromising their editorial integrity but... that's never gonna happen.

Nothing has happened yet

Really?

https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-changes-outlook-on-UK-sovereign-rating-to-negative-from--PR_350566

Everyone who voted leave is an idiot, a racist, or a racist idiot. If any one of them offers me tea and sympathy I will respond with violence.

You sound like a lovely person.

Yes it has, companies are not waiting until day 0, plans have begun, contingencies were worked on prior to the vote and now they are in execution. Coffee shops across London are looking at their employees and realising that none will get a work visa. The city is looking at what jobs require EU banking passport rules and looking to move them overseas, car manufacturers looking at whether they build their next model in England or mainland Europe are not going to spend a year building a new production line here on the hope that there will be a trade agreement when it's finished. Builders working on new office blocks are worrying that the job gets pulled because the space will no longer be required.

So things are happening and I do have pity for graduates finishing now.

Really?

moodys.com/research/Moodys-c­hanges-outlook-on-UK-sovereign-rating-to­-negative-from--PR_350566

Which means we might drop down to the level of France, assuming France don't drop down themselves.

Sorry to hear that. Interested to know what sector you work in? Financial?

As @Ramsaye says the effect will be huge unless we can step back from the edge. The referendum was known about for a long time and many plans have been made.

They couldn't even do a deal with the lib dems in 2010 to keep the Tories out because they felt they'd be going against tradition by forming a government without bring the largest party. Now look where it's got us.

Gordon Brown clung to the keys of number 10 as long as he could, and it appeared desperate and undemocratic to everyone watching. Nick Clegg finally made a deal with the Tories after speaking with both sides. Your memory of events to me seems a bit skewed.

primarily run by careerists only interested in their own advancement.>

You mean Abbott, Mcdonnel et al? I think the new Labour leadership needs to be young, charismatic, NOT FROM LONDON, and preferably female. It's odd we havent ever had a woman elected as leader of the party. What makes me really sad is that Jo Cox would have been a great candidate.

Interesting how you quoted me but left out the word primarily from when I was saying that Labour is "primarily run by careerists only interested in their own advancement."

So no they're not all like that, but for the most part yes.