EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

I don't think this referendum should be happening at all, but I'm hoping (I'm an optimist at times) that a positive outcome will be that people start to engage more with the democracy available to them - local, national, EU (if). And that there is more critical discussion and just generally giving a shit about the things people think are bad about the EU or that have been raised in this referendum (eg. NHS, housing). I see this scenario as possible if we vote to Remain, however small a margin. If we Leave, I just don't know.

Satan!! Burn in hell

It is anonymous but in the case of foul-play they have a mechanism to go back to you and say "hey sausagefingers did you vote x"

Do you really think a government led by Johnson, Gove et al would crack down on corporate tax avoidance?

Do they give out free crack at Rapha?

https://www.amazon.com/Build-Banner-Make-Your-Banner/dp/B00EF9MRGW

Of course I don't. My gut feeling is that the timing and the people are wrong but serious reform is right.

We only have one choice though.

We give out free coffee here.

they have a mechanism to go back to you

That doesnt sound very anonymous.

Was the last general election the same? I can't remember.

I agree that the EU needs reform, and hopefully this referendum might effect that. But if we leave we have no influence whatsoever and will likely have to accept EU diktats as part of our trade agreement with them, cf Norway.

Yep. And the one before that. It came in about 6 years ago I think. I used to be a Presiding Officer.

If there is a massive downturn in the UK (regardless of leave/remain) it would be nice that it prompts more people to be politically active.

So what should Remain have said?

I haven't a fucking clue. I'm foreign born, southern raised, middle class, educated and haven't lived their lives. I can tell you why they don't relate to the Remain campaign because I live and work close enough to their lives that this much is blindingly obvious.

More groundwork should have been done a long time ago. More feet on the ground, hands getting dirty, talking to people and understanding what going on with their lives. In it's own shitty way, Leave offered hope, a hope that could be translated into something tangible in the here and now. Remain needed to work out what kind of hope the disaffected up here needed to be offered that was better than the hope Leave offered. As Luci pointed out, the politics of government and the politics of referendum are much of a muchness in some of these parts. Can't untangle them as easy as a set of headphones that have been in your pocket all day. The campaign should have been more about people like Jo Cox and less like that silly twat off the telly .

If we leave it won't happen tomorrow. There will be 10 years of glacial pace reform/discussion before and then nobody will even notice on the day it happens.

It's perfectly possible to do things in a grown-up way. Look at China's 50 year integration plan for HK.

the timing and the people are wrong

Same as my feeling - which basically made my decision easy. A Leave vote, however intended, will be counted as a vote for the wrong people and will be raised up by the far right as a sign of support.

I don't believe this is our only opportunity to reform or leave. Vote in an election for a party that has a commitment to reform as part of its manifesto - why can't this work? It hasn't so far because neither voters nor politicians have taken it seriously (only UKIP - whose method of non-participation is not very effective).

That's my feeling too, leading change from within, not running away.

Another nice video showing how collaboration is great from the UK. This is particularly relevant to me, as I originally came to the UK wanting to be part of the amazing life sciences programs here. Over the last 13 years I have witnessed eroding in funding, tightening of immigration controls, and general disinterest in what is a very important area of research. I don't want things to get worse for the life sciences in the UK, we've contributed so much in terms of understanding of diseases and health and wellbeing, and a lot of that is from collaboration, and exchange of ideas. Making this harder to do will not help.

https://vimeo.com/171689238

I agree that the EU needs reform

I feel like there really needs to be significant cross-border support for that reform. Jean-Claude has already come out saying there will be no further renegotiation if we're in so it needs to be more than just the 'irritating brits' who want it, which I doubt has helped anything to be honest

they have a mechanism to go back to you

That doesnt sound very anonymous.

It's definitely anonymous once the time limit has passed and no-one has called the vote fraudulent.

The hand written list that ties your electoral roll number with the unique ballot paper ID is sealed up after the polls close.

If there's a question of voter fraud then it gets reopened and the votes can be inspected to see if someone voted more than once/etc. Once the question of fraud has been addressed then the ballot papers and the cross reference lists get incinerated.

If there's no question of voter fraud then, at some point after the election/referendum, the ballot papers and sealed cross reference lists are incinerated.

There should never be a permanent record of how individuals cast their votes.

Can you use pen? I probably am making this up, but thought it had to be a pencil?

Polling stations must, by law, provide polling booths with pencils on a bit of string long enough to accommodate both left and right handed voters.

But you can use your own pencil or pen.

Fuck yeah - equal rights for lefties. Take your scissors and bugger off you right-handed oppressors.

I think the problem is a vote for leave will also give support to the x3 cunts at the head of leave. That will be seen as endorsement of them.

long enough to accommodate both left and right handed voters.

It's PC gone mad, I tell you. They should go back to where they came from. VOTE LEAVE etc...

Hah, fuck you lefties, that string will still hang across your polling card and you'll have to try and hold it out of the way with your little finger forcing your X to look like a pathetic childish scribble.

You can run but you can't fucking hide.

Juncker didn't actually state there would be no further negotiation if we vote to remain in the EU. Only if we left. This is just what the leave campaign and every rag of a paper that supports it has jumped upon for a bit of last minute scaremongering.

This.

I keep having People tell me Norway isnt in the EU, yet Norway is OK.

The simple fact is Norway has to abide by EU regs to trade as part of the economic European union. But doesnt have much influence on these regs. Which kinda sucks. Salmon farming is a good example.

It'll also offer legitimacy to the likes of EDL and Biffers and encourage them to organise more marches and abuse more homeless people.

Someone I work with just said 'I am fed up with Brussels telling us how straight our bananas need to be'
Previously she has said 'There is no room for any more illegal immigrants' (actual lol)
Also she often rants about the £100million a week we pay them, and how the NHS would benefit more from it. Not entirely sure she realises that if Leave does happen, that money will not magically become available for whatever.

TL;dr - the EU costs us £5.2billion a year and all we get is illegal immigrants and straight / bent bananas (apparently)
#Bremain