EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

I must say I come from a relatively intolerant third world country and because people dont travel as much or have exposure most of them are organically xenophobic (maybe a strong word but leaning that way).

Even with that its not this ugly. Too much hate, too much self entitlement happening right now.

If ALL immigrants get removed or have strict rules to comply by, do you have no unemployment?

Absolutely not. There's a generation (or two) who don't know how to work and have little or no work ethic whatsoever. There's also the damage that people like the fucking Karcrashians have done.

It's just still appallingly sexist.

Not all leave voters are racist, but all racists are voting leave.

or something.

I've heard that too, that the remain is patronizing, but is it?

Most people are not intelligent enough for referendums...that includes the Remain. It's like asking a high school maths student to solve a master's maths problem: It ain't gonna work. It takes years of study... [the same is true for the morons that called this referendum]

Then when I ask politely for details or more accurate decisions, it turns out no they have not thought it through. [No doubt some Remainers also vote on misconceptions]

Then when you ask about it, politely, you get no answer. Even if you do not shout racist or stupid but just ask "OK if the UK leaves the EU, the farmers don't have to dump milk anymore, what is the new market and who pays the subsidies?".

Just truisms for:
The EU is undemocratic
The EU is racist
The EU rules our lives
We get overrun with immigrants
We can just trade with somebody else

The Brexit camp is making all these claims and when challenged, on social media, I run into a massive brick wall. People just don't want to know. There's also a massive anti-intellectualism thread and patriotism which shuts of any logical thinking.

This is again, true, of many people who are refusing to listen to any facts or are unable to weigh up contradicting facts.

TL:DR referendums are a bad idea...unless you give people short very concrete lists with choices and risk percentages, which is neigh impossible.

There has been a time when British trained staff where the most desirable in the world from brick layers to doctors and engineers. They served a will trained apprenticeship or study programme. This has been destroyed in part by importing trained eastern European tradesmen and not rewarding our professional adequately the aussies for a start have plundered the NHS for doctors during this debacle and replaced them with doctors from abroad that have favourable currency conversion. All in all the end user and staff have all suffered in the pursuit to make things more profitable and less of a drain. It all started with Maggie and daves finishing off the job. If we became domestic economy I feel people's living standard would improve everything can't be measured by gdp figures. It's not racists. It's not a divorce neither. It's creating a country where there a real future and not another generation of fuck wits that think there beyond working because that's what immigrants do.

Being in Oz, and watching all this through the prism of shite Australian news coverage, I have very little idea of what's really going on...

What are the polls saying? Should I sell my huge sterling position now? 😜

Seriously tho', are the bellends going to win?

Seriously tho', are the bellends going to win?

You say that like anyone knows which side is the greater bellend.

On ignorant leavers - this is interesting:

https://www.onlineprivacyfoundation.org/opf-research/psychological-biases/psychology-and-the-eu-referendum/

If remain does have all the facts on their side, this leaves a portion of the population with no choice but to be ignorant.

How do you overcome cognitive dissonance? One coping strategy is shutting down it seems.

I guess 12,000 miles gives me a better perspective, it's pretty obvious from here...

Betfair has remain at .25 and leave at 3, so if you go by the bookies odds then it looks likely that remain will win

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/22/andrews_three_fabulous_reasons_to_leave/

Buy dollars now and change back to sterling in three days and you'll have an additional 10% after fees. >12.5% if you bank with HSBC both in the UK and Oz.

Asked my mum, her answer was "its all a bit silly we should remain"

This is one of those occasions where punctuation makes all the difference.

In that case keep sterling or arguably buy some more sterling today.

http://hurryupharry.org/2016/06/20/why-i-am-voting-leave-by-professor-alan-johnson/

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/for-europe-against-the-eu/18102#.V2poiVQrKM8

Thanks for that link, interesting but still based on carefully curated information.

who posted up that Schrodinger's immigrant meme, about them simultaneously taking all our jobs and doing nothing so they can take all the benefits.

Well funny that.

Feels like those who believe in Leave are ignoring all factual information which point out it's a bad thing, a bit like the anti vaccination lot.

If you're doing decimal odds that's 1.25 and 4.

(Nice little 4.76% over-round for the bookies there.)

I'm trying to work out where the three reasons are?

I've made it to this point:

But of all the elites in modern times, our current political class is an elite with one important difference: it's a nobility that for the first time in history, has no sense at all of noblesse oblige. The word nobility derives from the obligations of being the elite: being virtuous and noble in character...

1) Someone hasn't read their Nietzsche. 2) That's a horrifying misunderstanding of history.

This

It has always been likely that Remain will win - the question is whether it is possible for Leave to win. It's interesting that bookies odds have been relatively unswayed by the polls.

This blog on the polling is interesting:
http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2016/06/17/why-britons-still-will-probably-vote-to-remain-in-europe/

Are you referring to the fact that it's a report, reporting findings of quantitative research? Or am I missing something?

Okay, so I worked through it. Trying to give it a fair hearing.

Here are the reasons:

reboot British political culture, reboot Europe, and stop a completely avoidable self-mutilation.

The first is terrifying and built on a straw-man argument. The second isn't evidence for or against anything, but a hope (but it's a nice hope). The third is tough to follow, but is first based on, hearsay (including the claims that the ECJ is "rigged"), and then entirely built on one CJEU case that the author is unhappy with.

So in total, I think the evidence for the entire claim to leave is based on an eroding of copyright law. Am I missing anything?