EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Interestingly, when you further split that group, those who are old enough to remember World War II and the aftermath are more in favour or remaining.

umm, isn't that already the split?

Nope. People who are 70 were born just after the war so. Their earliest memories would be from the early 50s. I have no point of reference for the UK but my assumption is that by the early 50s a lot of the rebuilding would have been underway/mostly finished. Rationing would have ended by then too (I think)

On the train today - In campaigners outside the station at both ends of my trip to work.

Yeah, I was reading 'aftermath' in a fairly loose way there.

I understand the split (I should find wherever it was mentioned before) as to do with 'proximity' to the war, I guess. So the noticeable shift towards Remain starting with the youngest people who would have remembered rebuilding and the social mood of the 1950s, perhaps the people whose parents/upbringing gave them the context even if they didn't themselves remember the founding of the NHS for example (almost 70 years ago) - and then increasing in proportion the older you get, as you get more direct memories across more of the population. Remembering the war itself, directly, has a fairly distinct age range, but the 'aftermath' gives you the younger age group, and that's much more variable. (Rationing ended from the late-40s to the mid-50s depending on what is was - people in mid-late 6os could remember it, but I had really just interpreted aftermath less literally...)

As it says, Ben Goldacre, regular contributor to the likes of The Graun and the Indy. Author of the hugely popular Bad Science column and noted for his insistence on referring to Gillian McKeith by her full and proper medical title.

I am aware of Ben G's work and words. I was wondering where the words were published.
On his badscience blog, on his forum, through his new institution he's created at Oxford.

Here;

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YdtUabICi-C1RMMJGOJQH2omv1sJ53zUlJLH1Ets8BM/edit

Just thought that the Barbican estate didn't start being built until the mid-60s, I'm sure that was a bombsite. Not sure how representative though.

My goodness man, you've saved the day, I nearly voted Remain. I fucking love twigs and Dunstable.

Vote "Leave" this Friday!

Most of the 'Olds' I have come across are also out. My parents, my in-laws, parent friends. It's OK for them, they want their country back etc. They've fucked countless things up for us already so let this be their parting gift.

He got into a bit of a rant on twitter last night and then posted his answers here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YdtUabICi-C1RMMJGOJQH2omv1sJ53zUlJLH1Ets8BM/edit

I respect his views disproportionately because they tend to be evidence-based.

Whoops, new page fail.

Asked my mum, her answer was "its all a bit silly we should remain"

I have a massive boner for him.

I've some lefties on my Facebook who think a brexit will result in a more social UK (as the government will collapse) or don't think the EU is social/immigrant friendly enough.

Wishful thinking I call that. Principles not aligning with reality I call the other one. But then I'm a realpolitiker.

Yesterday "80% of new jobs created go to immigrants...!!!". Again playing on people's genuine fear of no work (that should be respected...) but you have to ask yourself the question: If ALL immigrants get removed or have strict rules to comply by, do you have no unemployment?

The USA/Austrialia have it too, right?

I think part of the issue is that the remain campaign comes across fairly patronising at times (on here is a perfect example) with claims that basically those voting leave are racist and not intelligent enough to understand the implications.

They've fucked countless things up for us already so let this be their parting gift.>

I'm sure it won't be their parting gift... they've got more to give. There's still their pensions for us to pay for for another 30+ years for one.

I think part of the issue is that the remain campaign comes across fairly patronising at times (on here is a perfect example) with claims that basically those voting leave are racist and not intelligent enough to understand the implications.

I don't have a problem with this.

with claims that basically those voting leave are racist and not intelligent enough to understand the implications.

seeing as the economic reasons for leaving the eu have been soundly thrashed, the leave campaign has taken it upon themselves to focus entirely on immigration as exemplified by the poster n.farage has been merrily trotting about town. like it or not, this makes anyone voting leave look like a massive, thick racist by association. don't blame remain for this.

Can Toby Young be added to the list of LFGSS-recognised cunts along with Rod Liddle?

There's about four or five people on my Facebook feed who are "leave." I really want to point out to them that they were amongst the less academically gifted of our school year.

All my teachers, uni professors, and the ones who went on to get degrees or above are remain.

I did languages at uni, and so all my former classmates (90% of whom did time in the EU as part of their degrees) are remain as well.

I've seen three of four vox pops on the news complaining that the EU generates too many immigrants, "many of them illegal."

What kind of reversed, fucked-up thinking is that?

Ben Goldacre's "Countries come and go" is a good point that rarely gets made, I suspect because it might come over as unpatriotic. The UK arguably suffers from the free movement of people at the moment because lots of relatively poor countries have joined relatively recently. But, who knows, maybe in 20 years the right to freedom of movement will lead to a huge number of Brits going to work in the financial sector in Warsaw as it sits between a re-energised properly democratic Russia (Putin having lost an ill-advised Judo match with a bear) and the rest of the EU.