EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

I lived in Switzerland, although it's nearly 20 years ago now. The cost of living was similar to the UK, with rent in Zurich being cheaper than London.

The aspect I found most troubling was how sterile a society it is. You don't see many non-white faces, there is no visible poverty and the Swiss are very insular (most don't make friends with foreigners because they aren't going to be there for the long term).

The Swiss are borderline racist as well, my boss once told me and my colleagues, virtually all of us from outside Switzerland, that the problem with the country was there were too many foreigners living there. I pointed out the present company, he responded by saying "I don't mean you guys, I mean the Eastern Europeans and Africans."

I can't disagree with any of your points. It has a simmering dark underbelly for sure.

"The only landlocked island in Europe".

For somewhere that's supposed to be the global financial capital, it hasn't got enough cash points.

Years ago I went to pick a mate up from Geneva airport. I went across from France and the whole affair was supposed to be like a well-coordinated drive by operation until I got to Geneva and discovered that the flight was still in the air and was circling. This was at 3am.

I parked and went to find a hole in the wall to get some cash to buy a coffee - could I find one? Could I fuck. I had to go into the centre of fucking Geneva.

We could be like Switzerland? Fuck that. I'm not even interested in Nazi gold.

Normally you'd call your private banker, get them out of bed and have them bring you some walking around money.

The Swiss have been forced to spill most of their secrets now, for the most part you may as well have an account here.

Still no discussion of TTIP here. The most wide-ranging trade agreement between the super-powers of trade looming in the next 5 years and despite Corbyn promising he would veto it (which he couldn't) you all think it's legit?

Re TTIP, my understanding is that it would still need to be ratified by member states, although that addmitedly seems murky
https://stop-ttip.org/ttip-study-ratification/
But I think I have more faith in EU self interest stopping/watering it down, than in Dave et al. doing anything other than rubber stamping it

Can't beat a bit of visible poverty.

That came out badly didn't it? What I meant was that after a while living in Switzerland you suddenly notice how sterile it is when you go to somewhere like Italy or the UK, where you see people down on their luck, homelessness, graffiti etc. You barely get any of that in Switzerland.

The Swiss do try out some stuff for the rest of us. Like speeding limiters, if you get caught speeding you have to drive a limited car. Everyone hates them because they race up to the speed limit then suddenly slow down causing the cars behind them to panic and hit the brakes!

Also like the fact that the Swiss keep a weapon at home for defence of the country, if they've done National Service then they're trained to handle it ergo it's safe.

I'm not convinced about TTIP being handled with our best interests by EU reps. The American lobbyists are working overtime for GMO foods as one example. If TTIP is going to be worth anything to EU exporters it can't be watered down, it's not even a question of people accepting/opposing the eventual deal, only France has the legislation to ratify it. Even it's negotiation is a giant money printing machine for lawyers and they plan to overrun the deadline by 5 years already.

So Corbyn thinks he could veto it but doesn't have the constitutional power and Dave would rubber stamp it although he won't even be asked to, but remaining in the EU where Corbyn and the unions could do nothing about it is a good thing!?! We should genuinely be the 51st State of the USA by the time it's finished.

It's all right, I knew what you meant really - just being funny.

Swiss airport fucks took my beer off me coming back from Egypt so I look forward to pissing my way across their country in a long overdue revenge.

Has this been referendumed yet?

Remain and Leave take the weekend off from campaigning in respect for Jo Cox. UKIP? Fuck no, all over the centre of the city like a racist rash.

Money speaking, In or Out won't make much difference, the economy will be tuned like usual, the bottom pay for the top.

I've just found this guys videos and find them fantastic. This has some good moments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT5lgrs2fK4

The problem with bullshit is that it takes a lot more time and effort to refute and disprove it than it does to state it in the first place.

The view from the Overton Window has changed dramatically for the worse over the last decade because enough bullshit has been stated and repeated that it doesn't matter if it's bullshit or not, people believe it to be true. It's their reality and if the polls are to be believed, it's almost half the country.

We are through the looking glass.

People can literally say anything to further their cause and they can say it without regards to the truth or the consequences.

It's 25 minutes long and it's likely that those who prefer to remain insular, uninformed and politically illiterate are not going to watch it because of 'common sense, sovereignty and immigrants' but I'm sharing it in the hope that it might get through to someone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y

Le Manfriend had a good point: "Let's leave the undemocratic UK where Westminster which 3/4 countries can't vote for makes the decisions and sets the budget.

Living in NI I can see this, Tories push things through that can't be stopped only maybe softened. Wales got hit too by cuts.

But only the eu is undemocratic ;)

Not entirely sure I could live on an island controlled by Boris/Ian/Michael without Europe to protect it from these clowns.

Never mind the unelected upper house with a permanent Tory majority.

Wait for Irish reunification and come join here, Belfast ain't so bad ;)

Dublin is well £££ to live unfortunately :(

And an electoral system which ensues that more than 50% of voters are left without representation.

One reason ukip has seats in the EP is because it is more democratic that Westminster.

Permanent Tory majority yes, but the combined opposition win an awful lot of votes.

Was driving back from Gloucestershire yesterday and saw three large vote leave signs at the ends of drives. First time I'd seen anyone have up any paraphernalia for leave or remain.
A bit unsettling. Feeling a bit like london against the rest of the country.
Really hoping those who have remained silent so far make some noise at the polls and vote remain..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrss1/episodes/downloads

BBC's More or Less has made some good podcasts on Brexit and stats behind them.

That's irrelevant though really isn't it, especially as there is a convention in place which says the Lords must respect the will of the Commons on important matters.

The point remains that a) it's completely unelected and you become a member either through accident of birth or political appointment and b) there is a built in majority for a single party. It should be abolished and replaced with an elected chamber, one that uses proportional representation to elect members.