EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

The EU has little to no trade agreements with neighbouring countries and large manufacturing countries like China etc. Have a look at Switzerlands private trading model and if we imitated that, products would be cheaper, our exports would generate a larger revenue without the EU because of their ridiculous tax laws and the way they manipulate industries to maintain monopolies.

For me it's not the way that the EU operates in terms of trading etc, but it's how it is slowly moving towards a dictatorship than what it was meant to be a 'democracy'. The EU doesn't necessarily have to collapse, but has to be more honest and transparent about it's policies, and the laws its enforcing, all whilst the people are the main deciders and not hidden suits in Brussels. That way there would be nothing but benefits for the countries within the EU, but unfortunately this isn't the case

Some pretty bold claims as to the EU only hurting member nations, corruption, and dictatorship in the last couple of posts. I'm interested in evidence.

There is a democratic deficit in the EU. But some (much?) of the responsibility for that lies in the citizens who refuse to engage with it. Hopefully one upshot of all of this (if we remain) will be renewed engagement, and a "third way" of trying to improve the institutions that make it up, rather than tear them down.

I'm hoping for that too. I was also hoping for real devolution of powers for the Scottish if they stayed, so I'm not letting myself get carried away with that hope.

people are the main deciders and not hidden suits in Brussels

I'll admit that it's about as clear as mud, but it turns out that the people we elect, our own government and MEPs, appoint, set priorities for, and scrutinise the actions of the 'hidden suits'. Is that any different to the civil servants we have in Westminster?

As for the 'slowly moving towards a dictatorship' comment, do you mean it's being run by the people who actually bother to engage with the system and show up to meetings (I'm looking at you Farage...)?

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Have a look at Switzerlands private trading model and if we imitated that, products would be cheaper

Funnily enough, I was just reading about that in Der Spiegel. Short answer: ha ha, never gonna happen. Long answer: Switzerland has a long history of both adopting EU regulation and negotiation with the EU.

Think of it like asking your ex if you can borrow her car; or more specifically if you can borrow her car because it's an estate and you want to fuck your new girlfriend lying down, rather than fingerbanging her in the passenger seat. Those negotiations are gonna be frosty, even if you promise to put a towel down.

^ amazing

^^ rep

^^^ Hah! :)

Also Norway = lots of oil cash and Switzerland = lots of banking / riches
UK = mix of everything but not sure it has a much atm as those two places

Don't mess with the garage if your car is just OK... ;)

Some health/medicine based content on the case for Remain from my work.

http://www.thelancet.com/series/europe-vote

I'm not sure the EU was intended as some sort of democratic institution. It grew from a free trade areas. But that is by the by.

As to the democratic deficit, do you think you are being fair and comparing like for like?

We don't elect our civil servants or judges who for the most part are the ones who end up actually making laws and implementing policy. We elect our MEPs.

Ultimately any group will be the product of its members, it sounds cliché but you get out what you put in and I think if you are passionate about effecting change it is better done from within.

I also don't believe that post Brexit the brexitiers will be spearheading democratic reform in Britain. In which case there seems little point in worrying about a small element in a totally undemocratic national political system.

Kind of hate these things, but this did make me smile today

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^ totally having that!

The link between Jo Cox's killer and Britain First seems all but confirmed.

BF have 1.5 million Facebook "likes" and apparently this page shows if your friends are among them.

https://www.facebook.com/browse/friended_fans_of/?page_id=300455573433044

is that likes of BF or likes of something they've posted? in either case it hardly indicates card-carrying membership... facebook politics

I've regularly trolled the Britain First page and have been banned again only today.

They do a lot of 'like harvesting' with their posts. Lots of inane crap people click like on before even noticing where the post is from.

Switzerland and Norway, let's not hesitate to point out yet again, are terrible, terrible examples of why we could be outside the EU and still trade with it.
Have you ever been to either country? Both cost an absolute fucking fortune to live in and buy stuff. Norway's a decent place because it's taken its oil wealth and used it to pay for incredible public services. Switzerland's 4th biggest export is watches you need to be a hedge fund manager to wear... and they're the overt tax haven we're terrified of becoming.

We will never, ever be a tax haven.

Yeah one of my mates recently emigrated to Switzerland (for work, not a love of their independence). Apparently, he barely ate on his first day as the (subsidised) work canteen was so expensive he didn't have enough cash on him to eat a decent meal. He told me stories of French employees smuggling meat and cheese across the border as supermarket prices are insane. Certainly no utopia.

Amazing

Haven't seen a single leave poster yet in London. There's one guy in my office of 20 who's pro brexit. He's a second generation immigrant (granted from 1960's Kenya) but still the irony still seems lost on him.

Seen a few Express leave stickers in car windows round here... But way more remain posters.

I went home to Gloucestershire last weekend and everyone I spoke to said they were voting Leave. One of them even said that I was the first Remain person they had ever actually met, as if I was from another planet.
I work in Westminster and this week I have been asking politicians from all sides how they think it is going to go. The official line seems to be that it is too close to call, but the bigwigs of the Remain side are absolutely shitting themselves that they've blown it.

How is your relationship with your ex-wife husband / ex-girlfriend boyfriend ?

VOTE REMAIN !

I've spent a lot of time in Switzerland over the last ten years or so.

Sure, it can be super expensive for some things. If you cook all of your own food and buy local produce you can easily feed two people for 100 CHF a week but you have to really plan to achieve that.

If you ignore "international quality" housing in the financial districts, decent housing is cheaper to rent or buy than most of the UK. Tenants have strong rights, even down to earning interest on tenancy deposits and rent increases for the duration of your tenancy which can be up to ten years long.

I'm very fond of Switzerland and could well emigrate there one day but that is because it fits my particular circumstances and love of the mountains. I'd hate to suggest we model the UK on it. It can be a strange place for all of its strengths and positive aspects.