Which Groupset?

Yep, 7800 cranks are sweet

Considering the last I heard from Shimano was 'the pro peloton are not interested in wireless shifting', I would say they're either scrambling for time, or have been completly caught sleeping by their competition.

eTap has had a ~2 year trial in the pro tour, so it's not like Shimano didn't know it was coming. I guess we'll see when they finally volte-face on their wireless opinion

Shimano have been busy rolling out Di2 Tech to lower tier groupsets.

Since releasing DA Di2 its been refined to 11 speed e-tube, then rolled out to a very affordable ultegra. Now availible With hydraulic levers and long Cages for a greater selection of uses. They have several types of TT shifters, a climbing button, sprint shifters, d-fly. The XTR Di2 is now out in an XT Version.

All this while Sram was working on one single Electric groupset.

If you're quoting the Cycling Weekly report it also says "“We’ve already tested wireless, but basically we need people to be confident in the system.”.

You were saying about innovation?

In 2001 Shimano introduced a set of trekking components called Di2, which included electronic shifting and automatic adaption of front and rear suspension to riding speed.

During the 2000s both Shimano and Campagnolo (2005)[6] experimented with electronic shifting in professional cycle races.[3]

The first commercially successful electronic gear shift system for road bicycles was introduced by Shimano in 2009, the Di2.[3] Three professional teams used the Di2 in the 2009 Tour of California: Columbia High Road, Garmin Slipstream, and Rabobank;[3] and several teams and riders, including George Hincapie, used it during the 2009 Tour de France[7]

Also in 2009 Giant released a bicycle equipped with the Shimano Di2[3][8] and Trek began providing a battery mount and Di2-specific cable routing and stops on its Madone frames.[9]

A wireless system was announced by Tiso in 2012. Oh, you thought SRAM innovated?

SRAM RED eTap rear derailleur installed.
In 2015 SRAM announced its wireless electronic groupset called, SRAM RED eTap. The group is scheduled for release in Spring of 2016 and will be available on complete bikes and through aftermarket SRAM component dealers.[10][11]"

I'll enjoy my Di2 while building a signal blocker for eTap. mwuahahahahahaaa

All this while Sram was working on one single Electric groupset.

Give them some credit, they were also busy dealing with a recall and now busy dealing with thousands of dodgy Zipp hubs...

I believe the pro peloton arent interested in Wireless. They arent really interested in Electronic. When shit gets demanding like P-R. Loads move from Di2 to mechanical DA.

They have mechanics. Why would they give a shit if theres cables, or if stuff needs careful indexing, or whether its fit and forget.

And that bloody silly XD freehub. I have one.

It's also possible that 'the pro peloton are not interested in wireless shifting' because SRAM have a patent on wireless control of Electronic Shifting Sysems and Methods ..

cough Mavic Zap cough

I never said Sram invented electronic shifting, they just didn't bother with the pointless half-way house of a wired shifting system, and have been first to the bring a proper update to the groupset market since Tullio Campagnolo :)

@smallfurry I don't really think what the pro peloton want drives innovation any more; my point was that Shimano are scrambling for excuses. It's not hard (apart from expensive) to build a bike that confers some performance advantages over stuff allowed in UCI racing, even if that's only disc brakes and a lighter total weight.

Not really fussed about Shimano sticking a longer cage on their derailleur as some kind of worthy accomplishment in R&D.

p.s. this is all moderately tongue in cheek. I enjoy my position as resident eTap fanboy, but I'm totally happy with my various cable groupsets.

To be honest I only use Sram mtb stuff. Have 10 speed 0X on the fatbike, and X1 on the New AM bike. I just prefer it.

My move to Shimano for road bikes is purely Down to economics. I cant be running mad expensive groupsets. But want the latest features. Shimano are simply the best as feeding Tech downwards. I Guess because they are big enough to work on loads of Components at the same time.

Zap "achieved neither technical success nor commercial application" and was beaten by two years by SunTour BEAST anyway.

You're funny, proper off the deep-end fanboy syndrome. Indexed shifting and STI shifters are the two biggest developments in groupsets since the cabled derailler was created by Simplex. Then we have Di2.

"The first commercially successful electronic gear shift system for road bicycles was introduced by Shimano in 2009, the Di2" followed six years later by those well-known innovators, SHAM.

shit just got real up in here

Let's see if eTap is more successful than those wacky innovator-types Tiso..
http://www.gizmag.com/tiso-wireless-bicycle-gear-shifting/25496/

PC > Mac

dealwithit.gif

Well, as long as we're agreed that SunTour were first and Shimano isn't much of an innovator either. If I'm going to continue to fight this corner, indexed shifting and STI shifters are just incremental improvements on the cabled groupset; Di2 is a cabled groupset too, with some admitted improvements. I've made the comparison before between CDs / Minidisk / MP3, which I think is quite apt. Minidisk was an improvement on CDs in a lot of ways, but it was quickly sidelined by the convenience of digital music.

Wireless is a paradigm shift.

p.s. I'm not half as much of a fanboy as I make out. I think wireless shifting is cool, but I've got Shimano and SRAM cable groupsets on my bikes, and it'll stay that way for a long old time I recon. I prefer SRAM shifting and hood shape, but I've used Campag and own Shimano without complaint. I enjoy the discussion if I'm honest.

Considering SRAM have historically been at a cheaper price point for their top-teir groups, it'll be interesting to see how they trickle down eTap shifting (if they do at all). A lot of SRAM's literature has been about how there is no mechanical difference between their groupsets, just lighter/more expensive materials, so you'd hope that they'd be good on updating their other groups too.

If we're at a point where you can get wireless Rival or 105 Di2 in a couple of years, that would be awesome.

MP3

If we REALLY really want to go to the source then MP3 was invented by Fraunhofer Society and I hope they got royalties.

Who invented it first is hardly relevant in the mainstream.

Wireless is a paradigm shift.

100% agree. The relevancy is subjective. Pros dont care, noobs would love it. If Shimano comes up with it then it will be a better, more solid and cheaper product than Sram. And I will thank Sram for making that paradigm shift and buy Shimano.

"The first commercially successful electronic gear shift system for road bicycles was introduced by Shimano in 2009, the Di2" followed six years later by those well-known innovators, SHAM.

I can't see how you can claim SRAM aren't innovators. I mean, look at the pre-YAW Red and Force front mechs? Ever since Tulio nailed the parallelogram front derailleur, nobody else has managed to make and sell a front derailleur so awful that stopping, getting off the bike, and moving the chain with your fingers seems like a reasonable alternative. Particularly since trying to use the front derailleur will result in your chain unshipping itself a good proportion of the time anyway.

And the bonus 'surprise' function in the first series of hydraulic road brakes, which would cause them to fail catastrophically with no warning. A world first, I think.

And not to mention the Zipp hub recall farce. Not satisfied with managing to fuck up designing possibly the simplest part of a bicycle drivetrain, they even managed to cock up designing the replacement part. Having to recall the same product twice, for the same defect. Groundbreaking stuff, truly.

SRAM. Innovators in the art of ineptitude, reaching new depths of performance.

So your claim that SRAM are the super innovators falls down. Whereas Shimano HAVE actually innovated. Thank them for freehubs, hollow cranks, STI, SPD and their lovely fishing reels...

If you think being able to shift from the handlebars compared to the drops is an 'incremental improvement' then how on earth can you consider wireless shifting, which does nothing except accelerate the need for battery charging a 'proper groupset update'?

STI was a "paradigm shift". Wireless means more charging and inferior shifting but hey at least you might be able to install it yourself without seeing your LBS.

"I've got Shimano..." => "I'm not racist, but"

I never said Sram invented electronic shifting, they just didn't bother with the pointless half-way house of a wired shifting system, and have been first to the bring a proper update to the groupset market since Tullio Campagnolo :)

Being cynical, I'd imagine wireless shifting was always on the Shimano road map. Just they wanted to sell wired first and make extra money. Why sell one group set when you can sell two ?

"quickly sidelined by the convenience"

Tell me more about having to change button cells in your shifters and only getting 1000k out of a derailler charge...

LOLz

I have to go do stuff now, but this has been a very diverting difference of opinions :)

p.s. I'd take a couple of ~£1 CR2032 cells over taking a drill to my frame every time.

I still think you should be able to integrate the Sram eTap pilot shifters into a pair of gloves.

Sprint shifters, climbing buttons, TT pods..... you wouldnt need any of these.

Those pilot shifters have cables though :(

Noteworthy that in the Great Groupset Wars from 2016-onwards Campagnolo aren't even really getting a side mention.