EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

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Can commonwealth forrins vote in this?

British, commonwealth and spuddies

boom!

In, obviously.

Thanks, I thought so, but just wanted to be extra sure... as I know folks from work who got dropped of the list for whatever reasons at the last min, or been told their registration wasn't successful etc etc...

Just watched Paxman in Brussels, just an hour long rant about how unaccountable and undemocratic the EU is. Now I'm not saying the EU doesn't have some serious issues but in a programme which actually showed what goes on in Brussels (something we hardly ever get to see in this country) to just have Paxman respond to anyone who had anything positive to say about the European Union with condescension and sarcasm was deeply frustrating.

Someone asked me today, if we were outside the EU and this referendum was for joining, would I want in? Interesting slant on the in/out question.

I guess. I think it a loaded question as it depends what state we were in.

When we joined we had declining trade with our traditional partners in the common wealth and US, and increasing trade with Europe. Europe had been enjoying stable growth while we we're bouncing up and down with most of our cities still in a shit state from the blitz.

Now we're an incredibly developed, prosperous country. So its hard to imagine us not being in that position and see what extra benefit it would bring us.

That said now is not exactly an attractive time to join the EU.

It is interesting, but not exactly useful, because the country would be a very different place.

Yes, how much of our arguably good position in the world is down to the fact that we joined up years ago, and what would our relative position be if we had not joined the EU.

That said, many things, such as human rights, depend on our membership of the Council of Europe, which is a completely different organisation of many more member countries than the EU, and of which we will remain a member whether we leave the EU or not.

Has this been referendummed yet?

It's a good way to look at it, although the net effect of this vote is the same.

It's a very different prospect to the common market entry that started the process of membership. If the EU had to lay out it's offering now with a potential roadmap of countries joining and tighter future integration (i.e. Federal Europe) would it be popular?

The debate would probably have less negativity attached to staying out as we would have a complete understanding of what that entails. Fear of the unknown is the major sticking point for all the leave arguments. Fear of the unknown will probably determine the outcome.

Voting cards arrived today.

Mine has arrived today too, phew... was about to call them to triple check that I can, in fact, vote.

I had an interesting arguement with two mates today during pub lunch. They live in Watford and St Albans, both adamant for brexit, both with immigrant parents and still have family ties in Europe. I can only assume that not living in a cosmopolitan city gives them a jaded view of Brussels. I basically called them Tory racist cnuts, we did however polish off three portions of skate wing, no doubt caught by Portuguese fishermen in British waters and sold via billings gate market and two fine bottles of crisp French vognier White wine, large pot of freshly brewed Italian coffee, served by a Polish waitress

My current job is funded by an EU grant system so on a very superficial basis, I would be voting for a job I don't currently have.

Somebody who joined a Dutch anti immigration party, originally from I immigrant origin vua his parents, justified it with "the current ones are lazy not like my parents generation".

Cough.

As research indicates as generations go on immigrants become more like the "natives" perhaps he has a point. Still. They should have stopped the French and Germans hundreds of years ago. And picts and Saxons and Vikings and... ;)

New campaign to encourage more BME people to register and vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36379934

The debate on BBC 1 is quite interesting.

A rowdy crowd and the two prominent Brexiters (the bedwetter and Vicky Pollard) couldn't be more stereotypical if they tried.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/27/leaving-eu-could-cause-catastrophic-worker-shortages

So Cameron suggests EU immigrants may need a VISA. 88% would not get one.

Fuckery. Or HamFace scare mongering. Dunno. I don't trust the Brexitters much tho.

All the jobs will be done by robots in a couple of years, so won't have a worker shortage.

Robots have been going to replace people for the past hundred years.

I for one welcome our new digital overlords! ;)

I would believe that most EU immigrants wouldn't get one. Having gone through the non-EU immigration system, I've seen the hurdles you need to cross become substantially higher in the decade that I've been here. Right now, the biggest barrier is the requirement for a non-EU migrant to earn a wage of £35000 per annum or above.

Had this rule been in place when I was finishing my PhD, I would have had to leave, rather than staying in the UK to post-doc. One of the post-docs in the lab I was in (Singaporean national, PhD from Cambridge) opted to do research at MSKCC in the US, rather than here, because she wouldn't clear the wage barrier on a post-doc salary.

Add to that the application fees are outrageously expensive (applying for indefinite leave to remain cost me £1800) and add to that the new NHS surcharge they have (an extra £1000 on top of the application fee for an American colleague of mine), then yeah, I do feel it's out of reach for many.

There was even a story on the Today program yesterday about how we can't get the curry chefs in this country anymore because of the £35000 wage requirement.

Forget curry chefs, this is truly depressing: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/mar/29/teachers-abroad-packing-recruitment-crisis-losing-staff

UK has got it wrong on immigration on so many levels .. that subject almost deserves its own thread.

Immigration is the easy fix for public approval rating so almost always the scapegoat. Cant wait to get over with this shit .. few months to ILR.

I could rant about NHS surcharge but its one of the rare things remaining that makes this country great so I dont mind paying a little more than every British citizen and kinda feel proud. The logic is twisted, they assume that a dependant wont work hence wont pay NI.