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  • How off-road? Any reason for panniers over a bikepacking-style set up? The latter keeps the bike fun to ride on the more technical stuff...

  • I think for uk weekend off-road adventures then bikepacking style would be great, I am not convinced that for mainly road, long distance stuff my ortliebs on a rack would be bettered for space and convenience. Plus I have some nice panniers already and the bike packing stuff seems quite expensive for what it is.

  • but also for some mostly road, long distance touring of several months in europe

    Did you edit that bit in? Either that or I need a coffee and possibly glasses... In which case panniers make sense.

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