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veLLo
@Brameses
The blackburn is not that much cheaper, the bike was cheap so I think i can afford a bit more on the rack and go surly, just in case i ever want to really carry stuff. nice to have the option i think, and esp if @veLLo thinks its a touch wobbly with 12....
@TM blackburn is deffo much better looking, but hopefully the chunky surly aesthetic will suit the bike.
the only other thought was going for the soma porteur but im not sure if that will be a hassle for panniers. Searched a lot and cant find anyone doing so i guess that is for a reason.