Kill a cyclist, get community punishment

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/08/drivers-who-kill-remove-right-to-trial-by-jury-death-cyclists-pedestrians-justice

Reading this is making me feel like collateral damage

Well I had a hit and run that left out of work for 3 months by Mr White Man Van.

However The Guardian seems to have a load of opinion pieces suddenly about getting rid of Juries and the whole "Innocent until proven guilty".

Also while it is tragic, this case linked in the article happened because she went up the inside of a HGV which is something you just don't ever do.

Self-driving cars can't happen soon enough

When you cycle in Berlin if a car or truck overtakes you on your left indicating right it will stop and allow you to filter past. Took me by surprise when it happened. Astonishing courtesy and it stops people getting killed. Janina was in her cycle lane and the driver turned left without checking just past the ASL, then he climbed out of the cab and yelled "You stupid girl" at the dying woman and then he lied to the police and said the lights were green. Doyle, the driver, had overtaken Janina 200 metres back.

It does seem a bit strange that a Londoner can be going about her lawful business, breaking no laws, and get killed by someone's inattention and the jury presumably decide "That cyclist he had just overtaken must have come out of nowhere" and acquit.

Have you ever seen a cycle lane go up the outside?
The driver must have known she was there if he was doing his job properly.
That he was a acquitted is a travesty, and what this thread is all about.

Stupid girl - she should have stayed at home, eh...

I agree something needs to change, maybe just the law, but more likely our country's general view of 'me first' individualism being better than cooperation.

But what doesn't need to change is the right to trial by jury. That's just fucking silly and The Cycling Silk should be ashamed.

The jury decided wrong here, in my opinion, but that's just, like, my opinion man.

i remember reading some time ago that the TRC in post apartheid SA opted to dispense with trial by jury on account of the accused being unlikely to receive a fair trial.

csb.

So I just imagine that this sign is plastered on the back of most HGVs?

Were you there?

No, the report is here:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/janina-gehlau-lorry-driver-should-have-seen-cyclist-for-up-to-five-seconds-before-fatal-collision-a3213666.html

That's the thing about newspapers, you can learn about stuff that happened when you weren't present.

Newspapers have never mis-represent anything have they?

Also I didn't read that report did I because I don't go to that website, I can't be expected to read every publication.

In any case, you and I wasn't there, we weren't asked to deliberate in court and you can't honestly say you know exactly what happened because you are not in possession of all the facts.

I didn't say I know exactly what happened, I dunno why you're being combative.

We have the evidence from court, Ross Lydall covered the story in his column:

https://rosslydall.wordpress.com/tag/janina-gehlau/

We know the rider was in the correct lane, had hi vis and a helmet, obeyed all signals and did nothing wrong and she got killed by a driver who didn't look properly. Poor driving is so normalised that I don't know if it's possible to get a fair verdict from a jury made up of people who break the law behind the wheel every day. Most drivers admit frequently speeding so I think their ability to fairly judge someone accused of killing a cyclist while driving above the speed limit is impaired. It's like a panel of burglars deciding whether to send a burglar to prison. You end up with absurd verdicts like this one.

So much this. I don't know a single driver who has never broken the speed limit, and most don't even appear to understand that an amber light at traffic lights is a stop light (unless it is unsafe to stop). As such it appears to me despite drivers saying "all cyclists jump red lights" it is actually the case that "all drivers jump red lights and routinely speed".

These juries judge people by their own piss fucking poor driving standards, rather than the actual rules of the road.

This happened recently near me, I ride past the memorial on my commute to work so it's been on my mind a bit as i had many close calls in the same place, it's a typical boy racer spot so they speed around it all the time

http://leamingtonobserver.co.uk/news/fatal-harbury-crash-cyclist-named-leamington-father-simon-worthington/

From what i know the cyclist wasn't at fault and the driver is already out on bail.

Still keeping my fingers crossed for their loved ones to be taken in a similar way. It appears to be the only way, I'm afraid.

Your making the same assumption as the Guardian that everyone driver on every jury is in some sort of conspiracy to protect their own guilt, even though they aren't being prosecuted and there isn't any reason anyone would do this. I think it is fucking ridiculous premise.

It's not a conspiracy, it's just such a normalised bit of behaviour (to drive badly, not pay decent attention to the road) that most people seem to think a momentary lapse of judgement is acceptable. Even when that "moment" is 20 or 30 seconds of not paying any fucking attention.

It is so normalised, that when a person managed to cause a fatality on a bicycle, they get a harsher sentence due to the rarity of the incident.

Taken from my instagram:

If you decide to put the cycle lane on the left as some kind of
assurance of safety for cyclists or their special space, don't then
put the onus of left turning vehicles on cyclists to be careful if
they're simply travelling in a straight line. Make the junction a give
way where left turners give way to those already there.

[/sigh]

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Where the fuck is that?

Stratford. Corner of the A118 and Warton road innit: https://goo.gl/maps/YiogGTjonTq

Absolutely. There seems to be an understanding that the law doesn't apply to you whilst in a car - speeding, mobile phone usage, red light jumping and illegal parking are all commonplace.

When laws are enforced (speed cameras, traffic wardens) the driver feels aggrieved and victimized rather than feeling guilty for breaking the law.

There are threads on this forum where cyclists are basically feeling aggrieved when the law is enforced. Drivers aren't the only people to do this.

When laws are enforced (speed cameras, traffic wardens) the driver feels aggrieved and victimized rather than feeling guilty for breaking the law.

Yes because there is a feeling that speed cameras and traffic wardens are there to catch you out and raise money rather than actually catch dangerous drivers (like drunk drivers and those that drive at excessive speed). It not about flouting the law, it is people criticizing the validity of it because they don't believe it is fair. Whether that is true or not is besides the point and the accusatory stance you guys seem to take will reinforce their views.

Realistically in most situation going slightly faster than the speed limit or a bit of dodgy parking on a high-street isn't dangerous and the penalties are reflected by how severely you are prosecuted.