Bike fit / correct riding position

Riddle me this, Internerdz.

I've been riding my Klein Criterium for the past couple of days, and it's been rather eye-opening.

It's (by what I thought I knew) too small for me - it's a 56, so I've got a 130mm stem on it.

However, the front is low- properly low, so I was expecting this to be a bit uncomfortable.

It's so pretty i was prepared to forgive it this foible.

But - it's really comfortable. It's also really, really fast.

Now I started thinking about that on the way home - the why is it fast - and it's stiff, but so are my other bikes, this had to mean that I felt that putting out the power was easier.

Tootling round Dulwich Park I considered this, now one thing that always happens on my other bikes is that when I'm on the drops and really cranking my knees hit my chest.

Not on the Klein - a lot of clearance between quad and rib.

My thinking is that I've got a much more open hip angle due to being further forward, hence the lower front being fine and the chest/knee thing not happening as I'm essentially rotated forward around the BB in relation to my other bikes.

Oddly, also, and this might just be the short nature of the rides, but I've suffered from dreadful shoulder pain for years now, which I blamed on having a lot of weight on my hands, but on the Klein, despite definitely being quite far forward and having a fair amount of weight on my hands I'm not suffering from the usual pain at all.

Pain:

No pain:

Any magnets involved?

Have you measured the stack and reach?

Any magnets involved?

There's one on the rear wheel of the Serotta as it's used on the turbo

Have you measured the stack and reach?

Wouldn't actually know where to start with that.

Enter the Scoble...

(and Cervelo)

If you like the position of the Klein the key measurements I would take to replicate it are:
saddle set back from BB,
saddle to bars,
saddle to curve of hoods,
saddle to bar drop,
saddle to bb height,
saddle to pedal spindle height,
saddle to pedal spindle when at 3 o'clock

It slightly concerns me you are involved in a frame building company but don't understand bike fitting.

There is a fit triangle (saddle, bars and bb assuming same crank length) and this can be rotated about the bb. One thing people don't rotate the orientation when rotating the fit triangle is the saddle angle, perhaps the saddle is also helping to keep your pelvic girdle more upright, which may also reduce the weight on your hands.

You may find that because you are just doing short rides on the Klein you are pedalling harder so putting less weight into your hands/neck/shoulders. The shape and orientation of the hoods may also be encouraging a better shoulder orientation and posture.

The lower front end may also be making you more aero and faster. It may also just be new bike syndrome.

Have you actually measured the contact point orientations?

I'd say good on you are not getting too involved in bike fit theories and rather enjoy the bike.

Maybe try riding the Klein on some slightly longer distance ( within reason ) rides and see if this position highlights any new problems? You can work out various aspects of bike-fit yourself, but it takes time and experimentation; you may prefer to just ride your bike.

If bike-fitting isn't something you're interested in experimenting with ( no reason why it should be at Talbot, as Matt has Scherrit for that ), then get a pro to check you out. Someone like the bike-whisperer would probably spot straight away, something it could take you months of fiddling to discover.

I am quite surprised that someone so interested in training data doesn't have all these measurements committed to memory :-)

I'm wondering if seat choice and angle are the main driving factors in your shoulder pain?

I am quite surprised that someone so interested in training data doesn't have all these measurements committed to memory :-)

Hah, yeah - I'm pretty happy with my ability to make a bike that looks good and works well, beyond that I just get on it and ride it, I do need to work on how I actually fit the bike and vice versa.

I'm wondering if seat choice and angle are the main driving factors in your shoulder pain?

The wisdom of the Internets is that shoulder pain generally means your seat needs to go back, I followed that and (my thinking is) closed up my hip angle and basically folded myself over, which was sub-optimal. Aero, but sub-optimal from a "make power" and "no pain" perspective.

If you were moving your saddle back, shouldn't you be lowering it too to maintain the same distance between saddle centre and the bb, and would this not also maintain hip angle?

Honest answer? I don't know. I was lowering the saddle in order to maintain the distance, not sure of the effect.

I might do some measuring later. Thrilling!

I might do some measuring later. Thrilling!

Treat yourself to a bike-specific tape measure.

Also spirit levels, plumb bobs, lasers, etc...

Ok, tip of saddle to middle of bars is identical on both bikes:

But when we compare saddle setback-from-bb we get a very different answer:

Because the seat tube angle on the Klein is much, much steeper than the Serotta.

The Serotta has a much lower BB also:

So in terms of the fit triangle I am rotated forward on the Klein when compared to the Serotta, as I thought, which explains why my knees don't strike my chest. Looks like I should move the saddle forward on the Serotta (will require an inline post), and the bars down.

this will also be compounded by different saddles whose position wrt to the BB will need to be different.

In other news, I am really liking my Klein.

try putting the same saddle as used on the Klein on the Serotta, then dial in all the contact points to a similar position.

• saddle height, then saddle position wrt to BB, then handlebar reach and drop
  
  

then hopefully you will have the same level of comfort on both bikes

Riddle me this, Internerdz.

The paint that cost $1,200 per gallon - it's legendary and has magical healing properties.

And adds two charisma points

Are you measuring tip of saddle to bars? Saddles same length?

Centre of rail is possibly a better comparison.

Nice Klein

SMP position is totally different to most saddles

@Dammit one of the peculiarities of the SMP is that you sit further back in it than a regular saddle, so comparing distances based on saddle tips is not very useful. You really want to be measuring from where you actually sit on each saddle, both for saddle height and also distance to bars, set back etc.

Or just use the same saddle on both...