Cycling Fitness / Training Advice

Why are you having a day off?

Actually, there's some evidence that NOT refueling immediately after training can have better adaptations for some factors.

It's a similar idea to fasted training. Anything you can do to make it harder for your body might make it stronger in some ways. You have to balance this kind of thing with what you have planned next - no point getting slightly better adaptations from one session if it ruins your next one.

fizzy vegemite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW-nWnl5hYk

I have low blood pressure, and as my fitness increases it drops even further.
I tend to get Postural Change Hypotension (world blacks out when standing up) on weeks where I'm doing high mileage or the day after intervals. Have been to my GP a couple of times over the years and they think it's relatively harmless.

It's annoying though, is there anything I can do with my nutrition to help out ? Start adding salt or similar to drinks ?
I already drink a fair amount of coffee, feck know how low my blood pressure would go If I gave that up..

Postural Change Hypertension is common amongst people with a low resting HR too, I get it occasionally when my fitness is going well (I can usually tell I'm at this stage when I'm able to work out my pulse just by 'hearing/feeling' it inside my body, no need to stick fingers on wrist/neck/chest).

"
When you stand up, gravity causes blood to pool in your legs. This decreases blood pressure because there's less blood circulating back to your heart to pump.
"

And, the lower your heart rate at the time, the longer the gap between beats and the longer it'll take to get blood flowing up to your brain again, hence the dizziness.

If you know you're about to need to stand up then fidget about a bit to get the heart rate up. Or use it as an excuse to visit some of those sorts of websites.

Personally I wouldn't make any dietary changes to try and sort out the PCH as that's just a symptom of the underlying problem (low BP). If you're GP isn't concerned with your low BP then I'd just learn to get used to it.

I didn't even know this was a thing. Thought everyone had it now and again! I know exactly what you mean, sort of gotten used to it now.

So, what are people's thoughts on gym/weights vs on bike work (i.e., low cadence stuff) for building leg strength?

I do some gym sessions for core and legs but only 1 or 2 times a week and so don't know if that's frequent enough to get the gains? It does make my legs feel in tatters though which suggests something good is coming of it. Knackers my riding the next day a bit though....:-/

My recent training has lead to a pleasing increase in cadence, but i feel like my already scrawny legs are losing strength by the day!

I'm no expert (as you very well know), but the stuff I've read says strength work is of limited use in cycling. It's the muscles ability to create moderate power again and again and again for a long time. I saw an interesting video of a pro rider doing a gym session and all of his weight work was replicating what he does on the bike (high reps/fast movement/not huge resistance). It did make me wonder why he wasn't just doing it on the bike though.

It's probably different for track sprinters and the like, but for a climber like you it's all about shuttling lactic and weight to power.

^It's in this thread, it was Nathan Haas

http://www.lfgss.com/comments/12661425/

Specificity. If you've only got time for one, then definitely on-the-bike is better.

I've been adding back some strength training recently, not because I think it gives results (it might help but too hard to quantify) but because I enjoy it and it gives some balance to the stupid amounts of riding I do.

I feel core work at the gym is good.

My legs are massive though. So I dont bother working them. I get dropped on a near daily basis buy guys With legs half the size. So i cant believe I need them.

For leg strength you can just do a few low cadence/ high resistance drills.

I've been doing 'Sufferfest - Powerstation' to work mine a bit pre-season. But now the hills are defrosting I wont bother. I bet they get more than enough from the odd hilly ride.

So much breeze on this page about strength training!

Size doesn't always equal strength. If I've not been in the gym for a month, my legs will still be the same size, but I won't be able to get nearly as much out of them. I will be able to do 5 reps in a set at a weight I was able to do 10 at a month ago. That matters.

It's stupid to think that strength isn't important though. If strength work was without value to road cyclists, then none of them would do it - the reason that they keep the weight down and reps up is because they are all completely neurotic about weight. Crit racers and track racers are absolute monsters who spend loads of time in the gym - just look at Clancy et al.

And as for in the gym versus on the bike - most road cyclists do weight training during a build phase in the winter. Would you rather do low cadence hill reps in rain/ice/snow/sub zero temps or squats in a nice warm gym where you can have a steam and a shower after?
I've done both this winter and I know which I preferred.
Lastly - and pretty importantly, compound lifts like squats and deadlifts really build up all stabilising muscles (core, back etc) in a way that cycling never does, and that you'd be hard pushed to recreate with planks and 'cyclists core' workouts you see in magazines. Cycling requires those muscles but doesn't build them. Muscle also protects bone in a crash.
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edit: that wasn't so much a reply to @Smallfurry - more one to a bunch of stuff on this page

How long have you been going to the gym? Are you eating enough protein after? Try also eating oily fish - it helps with DOMS.

Step aside, step aside, track sprinter about to drop the gym knowledge... pfft :P

Crit racers and track racers are absolute monsters who spend loads of time in the gym

Not true at all. Crits are still massive endurance events and it's very difficult to replicate the SPEED of muscle movement required for crit racing in a gym. Plyometrics maybe but cadence in a crit is 110+ so good luck getting that leg speed out of squats. Track sprinting, different ball game - much lower starting cadence and much bigger gears.

If strength work was without value to road cyclists, then none of them would do it

Most of them wouldn't do it, if it wasn't for their teams insisting. There's some evidence it can be beneficial and I'd put money on there being tonnes of racers who've had success having never stepped foot in a gym.

Strength work certainly isn't restricted to off-season and isn't restricted to outside so your ice/snow arguments falls down too - just because you like gyms - roadies like eating road grit. A good turbo will allow most road riders to complete high gear low cadence work quite effectively.

Try also eating oily fish - it helps with DOMS.

"These data indicate FO or ISO, at the doses supplemented, were not effective in ameliorating DOMS with the above-cited protocol."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12370562

"Other supplements that don’t appear to reduce DOMS include topical arnica, fish oil, and glutamine. This may surprise you because fish oil and glutamine are well known for aiding recovery."

http://main.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/1079/Nine_Amazing_Ways_To_Reduce_Post-Workout_Muscle_So.aspx

Squats and leg speed aren't mutually exclusive! If that were the case - do you think you'd see track sprinters hitting 240rpm+ on the rollers or 160rpm on the track.

I'm just quoting Hutch's book

No shit. You missed the point though.

You're arguing for gym over bike work, I'm saying for everyone but track sprinters bike work is more effective and definitely more important than gym work.

Specificity is a KEY factor in training.

What i was getting at is that most riders only have strength building in their program during the winter - build and maintenance aren't the same thing

The reason for that is usually that it's hard to train, race AND fit in gym work for roadies. Trackies have far more time available to do gym work because they're not training for 200k road races. If you're doing a warmup, bashing out some 90s efforts and warming down you've done half a day at most.

I'm not arguing for one thing over another - I do both so that would be fairly stupid. I'm just saying why it can also be useful in addition to on the bike stuff. Christ, you're touchy.

"Specificity. If you've only got time for one, then definitely on-the-bike is better.
I've been adding back some strength training recently, not because I think it gives results (it might help but too hard to quantify) but because I enjoy it and it gives some balance to the stupid amounts of riding I do."

"So much breeze on this page about strength training!"

"I'm just saying why it can also be useful in addition to on the bike stuff."

Touchy? I'm just arguing. It's what the internet is good for.
You basically asked for an argument and then concluded by agreeing with what I said initially..

Ha!

Anyway, one point @dan made that I should take note of is that gym work is good for addressing muscle imbalance issues that crop up through just riding. I've suffered from this in the past and have used off bike excercises to address problems. I suspect a weekly session of calf raises, single leg squats, etc would help me not injure myself in the future.

@hippo No offense - you are not a normal cyclist. What you do doesn't really relate to the majority.

Granted, my training is pretty specific now, but i still do a load of road riding too (more than any other 'sprinter' i know). It's perfectly possible to do both if you aren't training for daft 24 hour races or TransCon.. And there are benefits.

There is a lot of rubbish here about strength training- it's impossible to deny that - I didn't necessarily say that came from you.

I totally agree With the core work out stuff.

But I dont agree With the need for cyclists to be weight training the legs. Unless you are specifically a bit lacking in strength, or are training for sprints etc. Maybe thats just me. Coming from a rugby background, and having a couple decades of leg work in the gym. I cant help but wish my legs were a few kilos lighter.

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