• I don't understand this thread at all. I don't get why people aren't being more emphatic! Have you all drank the cultural tolerance kool aid that @skydancer is talking about? He's spot on but even he is saying to take his own views with a pinch of salt!

    You can argue why cars are needed all you like - crap public transport, rural necessity, independence for people who would otherwise not have it, all valid arguments sure - and blame politicians for the mistakes of the past (and present) but none of this changes the facts: through any objective lens cars are unsustainable, evil things.

    They pollute the environment, kill people - both directly on the road (between 1951 and 2006 a total of 309,144 people, plus 17.6 million injuries in accidents on British roads) and indirectly through air pollution. They have a wider significant effect on public health as significant contributors to obesity, heart disease, diabetes and so on. They discourage people from choosing environmentally friendly forms of transport such as cycling or walking. They cause massive noise pollution and kill animals. They are still largely dependant on fossil fuels.

    So yes, of course it's a privilege.

    There is some good news I guess: driverless cars will result in far fewer preventable incidents, emissions from modern cars are falling all the time and young people are buying fewer cars:
    http://cityobservatory.org/young-people-are-buying-fewer-cars/

  • You can argue why cars are needed all you like - crap public transport, rural necessity, independence for people who would otherwise not have it, all valid arguments sure - and blame politicians for the mistakes of the past (and present) but none of this changes the facts: through any objective lens cars are unsustainable, evil things.

    The point isn't that these things magically make cars sustainable and good. It's that at the moment we're currently operating under the legacy of our own history. Waving your arms and shouting the effects of cars on our society and environment doesn't in itself change that we have inherited the burden of cars not as a functional choice but as a functional necessity. Demonising cars is effectively demonising car owners and users. Be in light of that necessity, that isn't really a fair application of morality. That morality really does vary depending on where you live and what you do. It's a spectrum not a binary.

    The effects of cars absolutely should guide how we make decisions about the design and implementation of infrastructure, both future and remedial. But until we address this legacy we've inherited, then blanket demonisation is frankly ridiculous.

    As for rights and privilege, those isn't thing that will change. Until cars are proscribed, then the right of ownership remains as it does with any other physical object. Until the methods of licensing are changed, the system privilege to operate a car will continue as it does today.

  • The problem with this argument is saying "we're currently operating under the legacy of our own history" is basically saying "we've always done it this way why should we change" when the need for radical change is clearly apparent.

    As for demonising car owners and users: I'm not sure how much I care about that. They are adults who have and can make their own decisions. The fact is that really most car users know that their choice is selfish and unsustainable, but they don't care. Everyone else does it so why shouldn't they, and they don't feel they are paying a price for their convenience. I do sympathise with this, to a degree - I'm not a car hater, in fact I'm regularly tempted to buy one myself - but most won't even engage in thinking about it or debating it.

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