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^^ I think this was a slightly unfair response. I take this to be your question:
Why are pro-independent Scotland peeps okay with any powers being given to the EU if they are not happy with any powers being given to Westminster.
I'm not Scottish, so it's a bit presumptive of me to claim to speak for 49% of voters, but I'm going to anyway.
To answer this question one has to accept that the relationships are different (that is, the relationship between Scotland and Westminster, and the UK and Brussels). This is a statement of fact, rather than opinion. Accepting that:
It seems to me that what independence supporting Scots wanted was the right to self-determination. What they then did with these rights was not necessarily the key concern for many. They may have immediately entered into new treaties/international agreements with the UK in which continued much of the status quo. This was, in fact, part of the SNP plan and an expectation of many had the vote gone "yes." What mattered is that Scotland would have the right to decide on these relationships, rather than being, de facto, a part of them (or worse, imposed).
The two, therefore, are very different decisions. One is about continued membership to an international agreement. The other was about the right to express sovereignty/independence, which includes the right to make exactly these types of international agreements.
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I think my question was slightly different. I've seen many Scots say they wanted independence because they could thereby 'get rid of the Tories for ever'. My question to those Scots is, what is better about a remote 'right wing' government in Brussels formulating laws for you than a remote 'right wing' government in Westminster? Many Scots were saying they would pursue different (more left wing) laws and policies if they were independent of the UK, but their democratic ability to do so was constrained by the fact they were a minority within a broader union. Within the EU their votes would be further diluted, and they would be subject to policy and laws which many would find unpalatable (e.g. the TTIP, which has been raised by many in this thread).
Long story short, maybe one or more of the following applies:
- They don't realize the governance of the EU is just as dominated by the centre right as the governance of the UK.
- They think the EU is a more beneficial relationship to Scots than the Union.
- They wanted independence because they just hate the English, and all the above is irrelevant.
points above a bit trolly - sorry to offended Scots
- They don't realize the governance of the EU is just as dominated by the centre right as the governance of the UK.
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Very neatly summarised, and shows a level of knowledge of the aims behind voting "yes" that seemed alien to a large section of the "no" voters I encountered during the run-up to the Indy Ref. There was a certain degree of obfuscation employed by both sides last year - and, naturally, a decent amount of media bias - that meant a lot of the quite beneficial aspects were buried under layers of spin. My worry with the Brexit vote is that, whilst in no way as emotive for me as last September, people might equate the EU as being as influential as Westminster has been up here. I grew up seeing first-hand the ruinous effect of successive Tory (and Lab) governments but see little evidence of the EU being of harm to me or the work I do. Aside from "wonky bananas" and the kind of Little Englander dross favoured by Farage et al, I think the EU has undeniable benefits for Scotland. Plus, vive la France an' aw' that.
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i_am_lono
Nothing in what you said persuades me there is a material difference that invalidates the parallel I draw between Scotland's position in the UK and the UK's position in Europe.