• I assume this was directed to me.

    1) It (the EU) has been given the right to enact these laws by the member state. The source of the power remains attached to the member state. 2) The bodies which do this include officials either elected by the public of the member state (Parliament) or appointed by the elected officials of the member nation (Commission). 3) The member state can revoke these powers (see: Brexit).

    It is an international treaty at the end of the day, not a federal government. If a member state does not want to comply with a law, it doesn't have to. There is no power which can enforce decisions made by the EU.

    Having said that, there is certainly a democratic deficit with the EU.

  • Nothing in what you said persuades me there is a material difference that invalidates the parallel I draw between Scotland's position in the UK and the UK's position in Europe.

  • I don't have to persuade you. Scotland's existence as a part of the UK is not the same as the UKs existence as part of the EU. If you want to pretend they are, that's fine with me, but you're wrong.

  • The UK can pull out of the EU. It would not even need a referendum. There is nothing that the EU could do about it. The UK defers some sovereignty to the EU, but can take it back.

    Westminster could remove Scotland's devolved powers. There would be nothing that Scotland could do about it. The UK devolves some sovereignty to Scotland, but can take it back.

    Scotland cannot leave the UK without Westminster's say-so.

  • ^^ I think this was a slightly unfair response. I take this to be your question:

    Why are pro-independent Scotland peeps okay with any powers being given to the EU if they are not happy with any powers being given to Westminster.

    I'm not Scottish, so it's a bit presumptive of me to claim to speak for 49% of voters, but I'm going to anyway.

    To answer this question one has to accept that the relationships are different (that is, the relationship between Scotland and Westminster, and the UK and Brussels). This is a statement of fact, rather than opinion. Accepting that:

    It seems to me that what independence supporting Scots wanted was the right to self-determination. What they then did with these rights was not necessarily the key concern for many. They may have immediately entered into new treaties/international agreements with the UK in which continued much of the status quo. This was, in fact, part of the SNP plan and an expectation of many had the vote gone "yes." What mattered is that Scotland would have the right to decide on these relationships, rather than being, de facto, a part of them (or worse, imposed).

    The two, therefore, are very different decisions. One is about continued membership to an international agreement. The other was about the right to express sovereignty/independence, which includes the right to make exactly these types of international agreements.

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