EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

In.

Can't see any compelling arguments to leave. Reform from within.

Sadly I think that any arguments posited by either side will be ridiculous half truths...and calculated scaremongering.

The real story is quite how fucking toxic this country is becoming and how jaded oxygen-thieve politicotards are sturring up 'grass-roots' hatred

Exactly right. I know that's all we'll get...

($100/bl, not $1/bl)

I'd be more concerned TTIP...

sure. Not really my point, but thanks for the correction

Undecided, opinion changes hourly.

If we vote out then we will be forced to have open borders in return for free trade (see Switzerland), we will get control of lawmaking again but limited to domestic laws as any goods or services exported will need to comply with host nation (EU) laws. So we may as well take the deal negotiated by Dave I'm just a regular bloke from the pub Camermoron.

Despite the agreement, staying in will lead to a slow (albeit slower now) creep towards a full federal European state. A slow erosion of soverenty and a slow change from the limited democracy we now have to a full beurocracy which is backed by weak thin democracy which will propagate extremist parties espousing single issues with no real hope a securing enough pan European support to ever get elected.

Anyway, the vote is not until June so let's see how we do in the group stage of the footy before deciding whether we like Europe.

In.

Mainly due to the selfish reasons that my experience within the European scientific community has been amazing. Erasmus programs at university, a huge shared pot of money for funding etc. Now living in Switzerland with minimum effort for visas (this is already changing with recent changes to swiss law).

IDS also

apart from the colossal logistical near impossibility of separating ourselves from the EU legally and commercially, we are going to have to renegotiate everything currently covered by joint agreements point by point.

the newly resovereignised Britain will presumably demand:
Everyone living in Spain gets to stay with all the rights of the locals
we can still sell you anything but we'll get to decide what you can sell us
only your prettiest and most highly skilled workers will be allowed in
we can all go on holiday whenever we like still
you have to stop all the hoardes migrants from coming over here

To which the Italians, Spanish and Polish will take great pleasure in telling us to fuck off

Fistbump

To which the Italians, Spanish and Polish will take great pleasure in telling us to fuck off

Ah, no- you see they want our stuff, so they'll do what we want.

Out.

Because I'm unbelievably interested in the mechanics of it and voting out is the only way to see it happen.

That's the best argument I've heard by a long way!

I also feel like fuck all will really change.

The rich will continue to do what they want, live without borders, law or control whilst they harvest the souls of the poor to attain more wealth.

More than likely.

I live in a EEC, non EU country.

Aside from having to compete with heavily subsidized countrys when selling our wares. I cant really see much diference. We also have dirty imigrants. Although I do try not to skip too many bath days.

From the Economist article

People without higher education are more likely to call themselves English than British

Is this really true? I was calling myself British long before I identified as English (not until early twenties), because it's factual/undeniable, but I feel English and will identify as such in conversation, whereas British is something that goes on forms.

In fact, that means before I only identified as English after I got HE...

moocher
In.

Can't see any compelling arguments to leave. Reform from within.

Ha! Where have I heard that before?

Watching the Tories tear themselves to pieces is my new favourite bloodsport.

Have you given up on cock fighting?

Lots of politics of sentiment itt from the In crowd

the newly resovereignised Britain will presumably demand:
Everyone living in Spain gets to stay with all the rights of the locals
we can still sell you anything but we'll get to decide what you can sell us
only your prettiest and most highly skilled workers will be allowed in
we can all go on holiday whenever we like still
you have to stop all the hoardes migrants from coming over here

To which the Italians, Spanish and Polish will take great pleasure in telling us to fuck off

:)

So if we vote OUT then Camermoron stands down and the Tories elect a new leader. We could have Boris in charge before the year is out.

IN

In.
I think.

If only because I think I want to leave the UK. And being part of the EU makes that easier.

I have no idea how the braying fuck lords will enable an exit from the system. It's disingenuous of them to say they'll make Britain great and we're better off out than in.
Trade deals won't be renegotiated easily, there may be more opportunity to line your pocket if you have cash.

I find this quite worrying.