Threaded Headset missing retainer/loose ball bottom set…

Been dialing in my bikes this winter. I have been working on two bikes both with Tange threaded headsets. I was actually hoping to switch headsets on the frames by the end of this ordeal.

When I took apart both of these headsets the bottoms were just loose ball bearings but the top crowns were in retainers/cartridges.

Im wondering if I should replace them with retained/cartridged bearings so they are not spilling every where.

Also when I was trying to interchange everything between the two bikes it seems like black Tange headset is just a hair smaller then the chrome Tange headset. Why would this be? Should I be weary of swapping the cups between the two frames?

Im wondering if I should replace them with retained/cartridged bearings so they are not spilling every where.

To do that you'd need to replace the crown race and frame cup. Compare the top and bottom frame cups. AFAIK you can't buy the separate parts anyway.

Looses bearings are fine: a cage eases servicing, it doesn't improve service-life (in fact, a cage will reduce the number of bearings installed). Sealed bearings reduce the need for servicing and are easier (and cheaper for manufacturers) to assemble: in other regards, they aren't "better".

Grease the cups and your balls will stick; and/or mount your frame upside-down when servicing.

it seems like black Tange headset is just a hair smaller then the chrome Tange headset.

Which parts are smaller and by how much? What is your reference? You want to swap the existing headsets between bikes? Why? If your answer is "it will look better", don't answer.

Keep the loose balls it is not a ballache once you get used to it. When I service a headset like this I always bin the caged balls and put good loose balls in and lashings of persistant grease. Always works a treat.

You may have two different standard of 1" headset. The headset for 27.0mm crown races have cup which are slightly different in the size to the cups for headsets for 26.4mm crown races. The I.D of the headtubes of bikes with the two different types of forks should be different. There is about a 0.2mm difference if I remember right.

So the two headsets I'm looking at on my bikes are the "tange falcon" in chrome which is better condition with no bearing wear but the the black Tange Levin Cd has bearing grooves in the bottom cup. I wanted to swap the chrome Falcon headset for the black Levin CD because its in better condition. I would imagine I need to remove the cups from both frames to keep everything in good fluent working order?

The worn Tange Levin Black headset is currently on my Rourke Low Pro Pursuit with 650c forks.

And the Chrome Falcon Tange Headset is on my regular track bike which has only seen track use which is why its in such great condition.

And gosh I hate to add to all these questions but the replacement cage bearings I went to pick up from the bottom cups all seem to wedge into place with out much room for movement. All this has me convinced you just need to keep the original headset bearings together with the original cups… Ugh but I'm already sold on running loose ball (which are the right size) for the bottom cups.

So long story short I guess I shouldn't have tried to fix something that wasn't actually broken. Seems like the benefits of running a lower loose ball set is greater than going for a sealed cartridge…

Ah, I misunderstood you: they aren't cartridge bearings, they're caged.

By "just a hair smaller", do you mean the stack height? The Falcon is 38mm and the Levin 33.3mm. Either way, the difference means you can't do a straight swap. You might be able to make it work by removing the spacer/washer from one headset and adding it to the other.

It doesn't make much sense to swap-in a FUBAR headset anyway. Why not buy a new one?

Are you certain the cup is knackered? The bearings will wear a nice, shiny track in the cup but that's not the same thing as being worn out. Is there play? Do the forks turn smoothly?

And if you don't want to use the cages, just pop the bearings out (although you'll need at least one more to make up the gap).

By just a hair smaller, I meant that when I was seeing if the Falcon/Levin Tange threaded headset was interchangeable. The replacement cage for the Falcon stem would wedge into the Levin cup. Like just a hairline over a flush fit more like wedged it.

So at the end of the day, I'm just going to forget I opened this pandoras box and keep the headsets the way they were. So,,, when I go to put my loose ball bearings into the bottom cup/crown of the fork/headset do I leave a 3-4 ball bearing gap or just pack it with bearings till its a full circle?

Did you have the cage the right way up? If it fits one HS it should fit the other.

Fill up the race with bearings, but it won't be a complete circle.

This is my first attempt at installing the bottom retainer, this seems wrong to me but the bearings are actually meeting/rolling on the fork crown when re assembled.

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This is my second attempt, the bearing falls right into the crown but literally drags when inserted into the cup and actually gets wedged around the crown causing a lot of resistance in turning.

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Flip the cage the other way around. Your second attempt is correct. Make sure they are well greased

Thank you for the help, the first attempt actually has the ball bearings meeting the fork crown and actually rolls reasonably smooth but I thought it was up side down.

Im just going to layer a track of phils wood grease around the crown. Should I pack the bearing retainer with grease as well?

Yes get a good amount of grease on the bearings

Caged balls should be facing inwards to headtube.